PC version out today.

[Dr.Jeckyl]

i'll donate a copy of fraps to anyone who is willing to post up some quality vids.

[MiStA PePPa]

Did anyone notice anything special about the Library map?

[MiStA PePPa]

bad quality, but it's PC.

[Ronin]

The graphics look as washed out as they do in GRAW.  I wonder what the machine specs are this is running on.  The frame rate is pretty low.

I couldn't even see the guys in shadow at all.  Not until they started shooting or got shot anyway.

I would have rolled a frag under that pickup truck, though.  It would either kill the guys behind it or at least cut their legs out from under them.

I'm still on the fence about whether to buy this.  Given the graphics (everything's brown/gold just like GRAW) I'm leaning towards not buying it.  If this is the way graphics are going to be in the future, I may have to find something else to do with my time.

These muddy graphics are the result of too many passes in pixel fragment processing with not enough precision used.  Was this also done by GRiN?  I'm pretty sure the XBox 360 version doesn't look this way.

How does it look on ATI cards?  Anyone, know?  The XBox 360 uses ATI graphics chips and apparently it doesn't look so muddy/washed out like this (just like GRAW for XBox doesn't).

[MiStA PePPa]

The map he is playing on is Mexican Boarder. It is pretty much the most open area with sun like GRAW in the game. You only play in it for about 15% of the whole game. I don't think the messed up specular will show up anyway.

[MiStA PePPa]

Did anyone notice anything special about the Library map?

If you can guess I'll give you a cookie.

[TaLoN]

best guess at graphics issues, is the xbox360 is the only system atm(besides vista and dx10) that supports unified shader architecture.  Now pulling all of this code out would require almost every graphic asset to be pulled out and redone and imported with differnent shader coding.  Im eagerly awaiting a Ue3 editor so you guys can get a grasp on how much work is actually involved in graphics now, theres a reason art teams increased by 75% in all next gen houses, an it aint because its hard to add more polys.

I do agree however that it would have been nice to have this game tightened up and completely readied up for PC, but I also see a project that cost so much that it just needs to break even.  Ubisoft tends to blow the farm on projects.  Concidering I was working on this title I would have loved you have it work like a charm in the pc communities eyes but alas...

[MONOLITH]

Just have to say, I'm glad we have Talon's insight here.  


:cookie:

[sithdemon]

I think it's a worthy addition, once I stopped thinking of it as a traditional rainbow six game, it was easier to digest. It literally is splinter cell meets rainbow six, once I got that attitude in my head things things fell into place. I miss free lean, but being able to blind fire, with a gun or grenade is great. the fact that getting shot messes up your vision makes it all that much more tense.

I also can see what talon means by Ubi blowing the farm on projects. Chaos theory was probably the most dramatic one in my eyes. almost every inch of the game oozed quality, and a proper step forward for the series. There were some technical fualts, but the game it's self, the story, voice acting, all made for a great experience (not all that I've checked out, still haven't finished single player YET! love that co-op too much), and throwing in guys like amon tobin, was a clear sign games had gone big time, in a good way.

[Ronin]

best guess at graphics issues, is the xbox360 is the only system atm(besides vista and dx10) that supports unified shader architecture.  Now pulling all of this code out would require almost every graphic asset to be pulled out and redone and imported with differnent shader coding.  Im eagerly awaiting a Ue3 editor so you guys can get a grasp on how much work is actually involved in graphics now, theres a reason art teams increased by 75% in all next gen houses, an it aint because its hard to add more polys.

I do agree however that it would have been nice to have this game tightened up and completely readied up for PC, but I also see a project that cost so much that it just needs to break even.  Ubisoft tends to blow the farm on projects.  Concidering I was working on this title I would have loved you have it work like a charm in the pc communities eyes but alas...

I can relate to that Talon.  From trying to recreate some of the old Doom 1 maps in Doom 3 I found that the old textures were nowhere near up to the task even though I converted them to 24 and 32 bit TGAs.  Using just the old textures looked like crap.  All of the objects used to be 2D sprites.  Now they are rendered 3D models with skins that may be procedural (animations, etc).  The advancement in artwork are just huge.

So it seems that most of the new talent is going into texturing.  Textures aren't just a flat graphic anymore.  They have alpha channels, they have bump maps, they have specular maps.  They go together as "materials" now rather than just plain old flat textures.  And the graphics can really pop because of it.

One thing that's holding back these new games (GRAW and Vegas at least) is that the rendering engine isn't up to the task.  The colors are washed out.  The frame rates are fairly low even on what can be called fairly high end machines.  And HDR doesn't seem to work all that well. Especially given the weird interaction between AA and HDR on ATI and nVidia chips. ATI chips have to have AA on to do HDR.  nVidia chips can't do HDR if AA is on (I don't know about the 8800s).

I remember reading some of John Carmack's writings about per fragment operations for pixels and how higher precision was absolutely necessary to do so many rendering passes because rounding errors and blending just turned everything into a muddy mess otherwise.  It may take another leap in video card technology to get past the muddy rendering we're getting from UbiSoft's newest PC games.

Frankly, I don't know why they let that kind of rendering pass QA.  Don't they see it the same way we do?  Don't they see it as a muddy washed out mess?  If they do, I can't understand why they don't back off (or let us back it off) and get better rendering even if it doesn't have all the "flash".  I'm sure they have a reason but I don't know what it might be.  It would seem to me that poorly rendered (color wise) screens and poor performance would detract from their game sales and they certainly should know that.

Think of it as a car manufacturer.  Your paint guys come up with an additive for your paint that will not only prevent the paint from ever fading but it will also prevent door dings.  The only problem is that it will added a brown sheen to all colors.  Would you add it touting it's non-fading and anti-door-ding features?  Or would you just not use it because you know that making the car colors ugly are going to cause your sales to go down.  Or would you make it an option?

[TaLoN]

at this point I would'nt agree at all that companies are straying away from the Pc,  I would agree that they are either holding off or have made their games/ports directed twards DX10 and Vista, due to microsoft directive.  Now on my end as a consumer I "wish" they would make it fully compatible right back to my pc, but my pc struggles with Ravenshield so I know I need a new pc which is why im waiting for first gen vista hardware to pass.  

Vista was designed with the 360 in mind so after it launches your gonna see games that look almost identical on both systems, atm running Dx9c vs code designed for dx10(the 360 has a modified version of dx9 sumthing, but its pretty much dx10)
And your 8800 whatever, will play vegas like butta when its in a vista machine.

[sithdemon]

Some HDR looks bad, however I think it's getting better. Oblivion and dark mehssiah are great examples of it looking perfect, especially in the right lighting. Graw was a little over done, but vegas looks fine to me, perhaps not on all stages, but on most.

I also find that ATIs colour are a little more vibrant, which can be both bad and good, especially for HDR, Nvidias colours work best for greyed out stuff, urban environments. It also helps to have a CRT monitor, or a LCD that can handle more colours then most, the samsung 931c is a example, or LGs which offer great whites and blacks.

[MindlessOath]

have you looked at gears of war and compared it to vegas?  they are using the same engine and i belive that vegas looks much like its old game on the unreal2 engine.  what did they use that was helpfull in the unreal3 engine? mabe hda, is that about it? textures are better too, but thats about it in my personal opinion.

[MiStA PePPa]

No takers to the big question?

I guess I'll just have to eat the cookie myself.

Heres a hint: It has something in common with Streets.

[deadsanchez]

took a good screenshot at 2560x1600. plays well. Better quality then xbox360 for sure. the FPS stays around 40-50 at the lowest. the shadows i never even notice i put lowest setting. not bad.


2.1mb

[MiStA PePPa]

[Samtheman53]

Oi Peppa!
Check your PMS

[Fixxxer]

Oi Peppa!
Check your PMS

Please do, Peppa. In fact, you might want your gynaecologist to take a look at it for you.

[MONOLITH]

LOL.     :cookie: :cookie:

[Reeper]

God ill break the news ... library IS bank just different mechanics ...
Same exact layout including the bullet proof glass.