I'm stuck

[Ronin]

It's official, I now hate Rainbow Six Vegas.

I'm at the part of the Dante Theater section where you have to defend the terrorist data hub and both your guys and not get yourself killed while holding off over 20 terrorists.

My results so far:

Data hub destroyed: 11 times
Team member killed: 9 times
Me killed: 19 times

This is NOT fun anymore.  Failing 39 times in 5 hours trying to get through a single firefight might be fun to some people and I'm sure the game designers think it's great that their game is so "challenging".  But it stopped being fun several hours ago.  Now I'm just extremely angry at the game designer for making this so damn hard.  Sadistic SOB.  A "defend" scenario like this is completely unrealistic.  There's no way three (two actually) guys would be able to hold an exposed position like this against 20 assailants.

I'm seriously considering removing this game and moving on to something else.    I don't seem to be able to get past this firefight no matter what tactics I try. One thing is certain, I will NEVER buy another game that does not have published cheat codes.  I'm tired of these arrogant pricks who try to FORCE you to play the game the way they want it played.

Getting stuck on a scenario like this is frustrating in the extreme and is not in the least entertaining.  By preventing me from just skipping this firefight or at least venting my rage using God mode they have only succeeded in pissing me off.  There's no excuse for making a scenario this hard or for disabling the other difficulty levels (the game actually supports four levels).

Does anyone know a strategy for beating this $%&@*$ scenario?

[MONOLITH]

I feel your pain.

Are we talking 360 or PC?

[Samtheman53]

lol

[Ronin]

I feel your pain.

Are we talking 360 or PC?

I'm a PC player.  I don't have a 360. I think the game levels are identical between them, though.

[Autoload]

I beat this on 360 by taking position behind the crate on stage right and capping tangos with 1 shot kills (yes I tried about 30 times) and tossing frags into the seats when 2 or more were close enough to be killed with one frag.
 
It's furious firefight.  Have an accurate and medium powered weapon.  I finally did it with a 225 commando (I think that's what I had)

[Ronin]

Thanks for the tip.  I've been using the G3KA4.  It has good power and pretty good accuracy.

I've been reading about tactics and the only thing I haven't tried is smoke grenades to cover the stage.  I haven't used them at all in game since they just obstruct your vision.  Or do the smokes just obstruct the enemies view?  I guess I'll try them in terrorist hunt and see how they work.

[EDIT] As I surmised, the smoke grenades make it impossible to see the enemy.  They can't see you but you can't see them either (heat vision is pretty useless).  I'm going to just look for a saved game that's just after this idiocy.  Either that or just hack the game.  I'm tired of this.

[MONOLITH]

I don't understand why the combination of smoke grenades and thermal vision isn't working for you.

Works great in the 360.

Only time you can't see the tango is if they are pretty far away. How far away are these tangos you're trying to see?

Also, I'm willing to bet that your AI teammates can see right through that smoke (the game engine's programmed to simulate their own thermal goggles, but the simple way to do that is have smoke be invisible to the friendly AI).

That means you should be able to pop smoke and just sit back and let your AI teammates take them out.

I'm also sure that smoke does block the enemies view (at least in the 360) because I've stood out in the open next to a few in smoke and they didn't know I was there until I blew their skull open.

[Ronin]

I dunno.  Maybe it's my machine but the thermal view on my machine goes out about maybe 15 feet. It's just solid blue past that.  The night vision is even worse.  It also goes out about 15 to 20 feet.  But it also sparkles like crazy (much more than real night vision) and there this grid superimposed over the view.  Both night and heat vision give you weird tunnel vision (also not normal).  The night vision only improves the visibility of light colored objects.  It does nothing for things in shadow.

I'd love to see what the 360 versions look like.  It looks like crap on the PC and is basically completely useless.  Going down the bell tower having to use heat vision was a nightmare.

Compared to the night vision and heat vision from Splinter Cell it's like 21st century versus 19th century technology.

I've looked through StarLite scopes and have used night vision goggles before.  It does NOT look like that.  This is quite primitive compared to that.

Now it may have something to do with my having to crank my visuals way down to get the game to perk up.  But I shouldn't lose the use of basic features like night and thermal vision.

The thermal vision is useful ONLY in very close quarters.  The night vision is completely useless.  For me, anyway.

I finally got past the "data hub" by putting smoke in the front rows (2 smokes there) and one smoke on the data hub.  I put the other guy on covering stage left and I covered stage right.  I used all my grenades.

One thing I figured out after this level.  I was not letting go of the machine gun on stage right.  The key it told me to push to "leave" was wrong.  I had to push the "Q" key to let go of the machine gun.  The "action" key (which I have mapped to "F") would not work.  So I kept getting killed because I couldn't let go of the stupid machine gun.  To have figured this out a little while ago REALLY pisses me off because it's a bug in the game.  Probably 15 of the 19 times I got killed doing this was because I just stood there holding the machine gun and couldn't let go to get into cover.  The last four times I got killed I did not use the machine gun (which is pretty effective) because I could not figure out how to let go of it.  I think I broke my biteguard when I discovered how to let go and that the game was telling me to use the wrong damn key... :yikes:

Now, I'm trying to defend (again -- I HATE these stupid "defend" scenarios) the gate controls on the dam.  I'd love to give the people who designed these levels a few good smacks on the head.  The last time I tried this, I got "you took too much time -- you lose - ha ha ha ha".  Well, I added the "you lose - ha ha ha ha".  But I'm sure those level designers get their jollies from crap like that.  I say again, sadistic little SOBs.

It is possible to take game screenies on the XBox 360?  I haven't figured out how to do screen shots on R6V on the PC, yet. (haven't really looked for it)  I'll post some screenies of the heat and night vision modes when I can make some.

[BajaBravo]

From the way you described it, I don't think the thermal or lowlight vision is much different on the 360. I have both the 360 and PC versions but I haven't installed the PC one yet. When I do, I'll post an update.

[Ronin]

From the way you described it, I don't think the thermal or lowlight vision is much different on the 360. I have both the 360 and PC versions but I haven't installed the PC one yet. When I do, I'll post an update.

Thanks, BjB.

[MONOLITH]

I agree with you too, that both the thermal and nightvision doesn't seem to go quite far enough.

I just found the thermal to be good enough, but if you're shooting across a large area, yeah, it's not going to work.

I got stuck trying to let go of the stationary guns a few times myself.

[MONOLITH]

Also, I'm willing to bet that your AI teammates can see right through that smoke (the game engine's programmed to simulate their own thermal goggles, but the simple way to do that is have smoke be invisible to the friendly AI).

That means you should be able to pop smoke and just sit back and let your AI teammates take them out.

Did you happen to test this at all?

[Ronin]

I tried popping smoke on the "guard the gate controls" part of the dam.  Michael just sat there and did not engage with the ROE set to "assault".  Somehow I keep getting fragged.  I don't how or who's doing it.  I just go down with no "injury" before I'm just suddenly dead.

The heat vision is useful there since it's fairly close range combat, although the first time I used smoke I shot Michael because you can't tell who's who with that vision mode.

It would also be nice to be able to point to a group of incoming tangos and say "attack".  And have your team member get his own cover and work that objective.  But that doesn't seem to be an option.

This scenario (like all the other "defend" scenarios) also means that you only have two guns.  Because Jung is, yet again, not part of the fire team.  Having to defend something is bad enough without losing 1/3 of your team while doing it.  (although, I must say that Jung gets wounded a LOT -- probably twice as much as Michael)

On "normal' night vision the light amplification is up to 1000 times ambient. And there is some sparkle but very little.  That's caused by the light reflection of dust particles in the air, IIRC.  In dusty areas, I'm sure it's pretty sparkly.  But indoors in a building like a Casino, there should be very little sparkle.

From what I've read, heat (IR or thermal) vision is supposed to work out to between 175 and 200 feet for "cool" things and up to 250 feet for "hot" objects like human bodies.  For the larger, heavier, more sensitive systems in vehicles they can see over 2000 yards with it.

The military already has combo goggles that incorporate both heat and night vision.  I don't know why the R6 guys don't rate those.  I've seen footage of what the display looks like.  It's mostly like night vision but with heat coloration (darker for cooler objects and lighter for hotter).  That view is, in some ways, better than normal vision since you can see through smoke and camo with it.

[MONOLITH]

Well, I'm really feeling your pain Ronin. I'm on normal difficulty and I'm constantly finding myself annoyingly redoing areas because i keep getting killed.

I can't stand doing a level over and over and over and over.....  

[Pripyat]

I used the "turret" (light machine gun) on the right after dying a few times.  It seems to suppress them and gives you a few extras seconds to drop them.  Worked for me on the first attempt with the turret.  I used short bursts and had to reload once.  The mob appears to enter in different ways from attempt to attempt so some times it might be harder than others.

P

[Ronin]

I used the "turret" (light machine gun) on the right after dying a few times.  It seems to suppress them and gives you a few extras seconds to drop them.  Worked for me on the first attempt with the turret.  I used short bursts and had to reload once.  The mob appears to enter in different ways from attempt to attempt so some times it might be harder than others.

P

My problem there turned out to be that I kept getting nailed by the guys in the balcony because Michael wasn't doing his job.  Not being able to let go of the gun is a big problem once you get hit hard.  It also seems like the up/down traverse of the gun would flip sometimes because I'd be trying to shoot at the guys on the floor but the gun would be pointing at the balconies.  And trying to move the gun down just moved it up.  That's pretty jarring and causes a lot of confusion when trying to control the gun.  Enough that you get killed pretty quickly.  Especially if you can't let go of the d*mn gun. :yikes:

I finally got through that level by deploying Michael on stage left (close to Jung), smoking up Jung's position so they wouldn't let the smoke out of the data hub or kill him, taking cover on the stage right and popping a couple of smokes in the front row.  I kept popping out of cover and either throwing a frag or taking down tangos one at a time until they were all down.  The guys that rappel down I took out as they were coming down.

That's a tough scenario.  But I can't get past the "defend the aux gate controls" scenario on the dam.  I either get killed or the timer runs out.

[Autoload]

But I can't get past the "defend the aux gate controls" scenario on the dam. I either get killed or the timer runs out.

You are probably getting capped by the two tangos that appear a minute or so into the scenario from behind you.
 
Once Jung starts hacking the first round comes from the garage in front of you.  A short time in to their attack.. the garage door behinde you opens and 2 tangos come out firing.  Take those two out as soon as the door starts coming up (hide by the forklift) and you'll be able to finish.

[Ronin]

Well, I'm really feeling your pain Ronin. I'm on normal difficulty and I'm constantly finding myself annoyingly redoing areas because i keep getting killed.

I can't stand doing a level over and over and over and over.....  

Yeah Mono, having to redo stuff you've already succeeded at really bites.  I'm playing on "normal", too.  You DO know that that's actually the "veteran" skill level, don't you?  They dropped the lowest and highest skill levels even though it looks like the engine and config files are designed for all four levels.

Of COURSE the lowest difficulty level is TOO EASY for the 20 year old guy that designed the levels -- but what about us old guys whose reflexes are shot AND don't know the levels intimately (YET)  But they take that out difficulty level out anyway.  Regardless of whether it might make the difference between massive frustration and fun for some players.

Trying to figure out what the level designer wants you to do for each scenario also bites.  Especially when you keep getting killed and you don't know how it happens.  You keep getting killed until you figure out the right combination of actions that will get you through that scenario.  Just using good tactics doesn't always work although it should.

The timer on that dam level makes it even more annoying.  (I HATE timed scenarios even more than defending -- any designer who uses them is the spawn of the Devil).

Where are you in the game, Mono?  I may never finish the thing.  Life is stressful enough without having frustration like this add do it.

[Ronin]

You are probably getting capped by the two tangos that appear a minute or so into the scenario from behind you.
 
Once Jung starts hacking the first round comes from the garage in front of you.  A short time in to their attack.. the garage door behind you opens and 2 tangos come out firing.  Take those two out as soon as the door starts coming up (hide by the forklift) and you'll be able to finish.

I've tried taking cover behind the forklift a couple of times.  I kill those two guys, too, but the timer expires on me anyway.  I've managed to kill all the tangos four times in a row, now.  But the timer runs out every time.  I'm beginning to REALLY hate this game.  On the last go, I just killed Jung on the stairs to vent my anger then quit the game.  I'm beginning to think I've run into (yet another) bug in the game.

Given the difficulty I've had with this game, I'm pretty sure that the replay value will be ZERO for me.  Good thing I didn't spend any money on it, at least (Christmas present).

[MONOLITH]

Where are you in the game, Mono?  

I'm too embarrassed to say. I haven't been playing it that much.  :yup:




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