Marriage is dead

[MONOLITH]

A lot of factors, from women's lib, to the all the things the internet offers to people; and with divorce rate now at 50%, marriage is dying a quick death.

People just don't need it anymore, and many simply don't want it, seeing the negative changes it can bring to lives. I think within the next two decades, few people will legally tie themselves to another anymore. .


Love Signs Along the Dotted Line
Wednesday, October 11, 2006


For baby boomers, it seems nothing says "romance" the second time around like "I'll love you forever and ever under these circumstances. Sign here."

A new study by the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers indicates that more and more baby boomers are opting for prenuptial agreements than ever before — a whopping 80 percent increase over the last five years, The New York Post reports.

And if you're a cheater with a penchant for Cheetos, forget about it — the terms of the agreements are becoming increasingly detailed, regulating everything from the amount of pounds one can pack on her fanny to the consequences of a wandering eye.

Lawyers say the betrothed aren't shy about specifics. In fact, they have gone as far as to ask for contracts on how many times a week they should get some … ahem … matrimonial action and how clean their homes should be.

Even old Fluffy and Fido aren't exempt as fodder for the pre-marital bargaining table. Lawyers say that cats, dogs and even reptiles are often a part of the prenup process these days.

In the industry believe the rise of the comically detailed prenup has a lot to do with middle-aged divorcees looking to avoid the burn of another nasty split. In fact, the study shows the contracts aren't just for the rich old guys with the trophy wives anymore — the major boom in popularity is among middle-class 40-60 year olds.

"[The pacts] are a vaccine against the disease of divorce," said Manhattan divorce lawyer Raoul Felder. "It's the vogue today. It's the product of divorce being expensive and intrusive."

But some lawyers insist the zany requests are nothing but poppycock when it comes to court.

"It's a complete absurdity," said Manhattan divorce attorney Jeffrey Cohen. "These are things that are almost impossible to police and enforce. These are a set of demands that if you need to make them, you ought not to get married."

[Lazerblade]

And even worse, the divorce rate for previously divorced persons doubles for each subsequent marriage, meaning that second marriages have something like a 34% chance of surviving, third marriages about 18%, etc...

[DaSmerg]

Is marriage dead...or doomed?

I dunno...really hard to say IMHO.  It might be better to look at it this way...will less folks decide to get married?  Probably with more options being available.  Is the much over used phrase "traditional marriage" in a state of change?  Most definately.  With more and more civil unions (same sex couples, my own brother was married by a freind of his and his now wife's with just an officiant overseeing this summer) or co-habitating legal unions (common law).

Myself?  What I've come to view as my own personal definition of marriage, it's a one time deal.  Whether my current marriage to my wife ends up failing in some unseeable future or if I end up being the surviving partner, I just don't see how I could ever violate the solemn vow I took in front of friends, family and god  9 years + ago.  If you are anything in this world, you are your word and I gave my word that this was to be the only one.  But with the option to become common law spouses now, my belief is pretty much cemented in marriage is something you do once.

I definately do agree with a sentiment that you have expressed a few times though Mono, the whole notion of marriage being some sort of sacred institution between a man and a woman is bunk.  Increasing divorce rates have definately erorded whatever meaning it might have had in previous generations.  It seems several marriages end over such trivial matters that no one can be bothered to find a solution to when you can much more easily just divorce and move on and/or two people who just should not have got married in the first place undo that silly little frivolity.

And though I might keep trying, my wife doesn't seem too much into the harem idea sadly, even though she's been promised again and again to always be the number one.:wink: :yup: :yup:

[Dr.Jeckyl]

just goes to prove it's been a contractual agreement for all time. :wink:

[TaLoN]

idonno Im happily married now for 4 years, sure theres hotties I wouldnt mind pokin, but whateva, theres alway porn for that.  Using the cop out that mariage is dead is bunk, if you wanna get married its cause you love that person, and nothing else.  If your questioning that decision then stop it in its tracks.  I'll be with karen till the day I die, I know the whole screw releigion bit, but its a cop out for being a cheat who made the wrong decision and didnt have the balls to stop it when they had the chance.  Now you can never speak for your spouse, but my advise for all of you who maybe thinking about it, think about it.

[MONOLITH]

idonno Im happily married now for 4 years,.... Using the cop out that mariage is dead is bunk

Easy now. Don't change the meaning of my post.

Nothing was implied about the state of anyones current marriage. Particularly mine. I'd be willing to go as far as to say I may the happiest marriage of any of us.

My point is about the trend of marriage; the direction it's heading in the future; in society in general.  Look at marriage and all related statistics in the 1950's, and compare to today.

All indicators point to traditional marriage/typical domestic arrangements becoming largely a thing of the past (in terms of census statistics).

[Da Fish]

Easy now. Don't change the meaning of my post.

Nothing was implied about the state of anyones current marriage. Particularly mine. I'd be willing to go as far as to say I may the happiest marriage of any of us.

Careful what you say Mono, you could end up turning this into a "MY marriage am Bestest !!!!!!111!!!1!2!!!!" thread............ :wink:

[MONOLITH]

I'm prepared to have that contest.

But no, that's not my intent. It's exactly what I was trying to steer away from when "but I'm happy" came up.

I'm also just trying to make it very clear that this thread was not an indication of my feelings about my own marriage.

[MikeDaMan]

Marage Baaaah... i cant do without sex... why would I get married.

(people always tell me they get it less often after marrage... and NEVER more)

But all jokes aside. I think people get married to early in life, they dont have a grip on whats truly important, and they dont know how to be giving and unselfish.  And for the most part, marrie the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

Its not till your older that you hopefuly see the importance of life, you hopefuly learn to love someone, in stead of thinking of what you can get out of a arangment of living with a woman..or the (how cool would that be scenerios)

Girls of today are not as they were a generation back, the importance of 2 income homes is almost the norm. And the very fabric that made the world work in a orginized fasion is slipping.

I will go as far as to say, moms stay home with the kids and do that work as pops gets up in the morning to provied for her and the kids was a normal part of life in the past (and it got humanity this far) but almost un heard of now.

I think its MOSTLY in part that people themselfs are the problem... they want the big SUV's the big house... the plasma tvs... this and that and the like.. but seem to forget a marage/family is not about ANY one person anymore. You dont live your life for yourself, and its your duty to provide for your kids not only forking out all your money... but you should be providing intrest in your kids, afection, and guidence.

All that stuff is for the most part going against what most people want for themselfs And they fail. Cuz you and her have to work 4 jobs to pay the bills for all that shit, and in the end your son went to bed ignored, and your daughter went to bed with no kiss and hug, cuz you pulled a 12 hr shift and you passed out on the doormat on your way in.  We are our biggest problems.

Id also be willing to bet the divorce rate of people that have aranged marrages is MUCH lower then the way the rest of us do it. Cuz you LEARN to apreciate someone, cuz it is not driven by lust and illusion. Not to mention your parents been there and done that... and they can tell just by seeing/talking to a girl you brought home for 5 min if shes marrage matirial or not. While you sit there and look at her tits and ass all night.

I look at my younger cousens and see them going threw there motions as I did when i was younger and they are so taken by there GFs like there the best thing that ever happend to them... as i sit there and listen to the girls talk and think... OMG that girls so selfish, imature, and matirialistic... Shes no freaking good for him... but hey, who am I to tell him right. We all learn at our own speed.

And rairly by advice...

[MONOLITH]

Told ya so....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/us/16census.html?ei=5065&en=fd431ee3a6bf026f&ex=1169528400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print



And with this comes the added side effect of reduced birthrates. Soon middle class white Americans will be extinct.






.

[MindlessOath]

i belive alot of this has to do with the "man" and his ego. also the way people were brought up as kids... it just passes on and spreads.

a woman to do all the housework no more - men get off your asses, stop watching porn and stop posting your "hot women threads". its time to love your wife, and stop making her look like she is not wanted.  

some women were brought up to belive that they can just be subjected to terrable behavure - its terrable.  its not all mans fault, but man is the major roll in this issue.

well thats my  feionce (sp?) and my opinion.  the world is in a spiral and its not good.

[Lazerblade]

The biggest problem with marriage isn't the man, in my opinion. It's the greed, the lifestyle, and the strive for a better life that causes so many bad marriages, and so many bachelors/bachelorettes. Most of the people I know where I currently live are either married, engaged, or have a steady "mate" that they plan to stay with. Unfortunately, for the most part these people either have been or will be divorced at least once in their lives. People jump into marriage because they want the lifestyle that comes with a dual income. Or they themselves cannot afford what they want so they marry someone with more income to boost their own lifestyle. These marriages seldom last.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a better life. But that life cannot be obtained through a ring. I don't believe that everyone can get what they want if they work hard enough, but I do believe that everyone can be comfortable with their life as long as they continue to put effort into it. And I think that people are finally realizing that marriage isn't always the answer to a better life. You wouldn't see that if you took a survey, because some people don't think their life is so bad because they have most of what they desire, despite all the pain they must endure to keep it. But enough people are getting divorced that it's no longer a stigma in society.

Personally, I've been divorced once. I don't plan to do it again. My life wasn't great, but even if a better life were offered, I'd make sure that the heart of the relationship, that with a significant other, would hold strong through anything and overcome obstacles. Not enough people are getting married for the right reasons, and too many are getting married for the wrong ones.

[Ronin]

Well, my marriage isn't on the rocks.  After 17 years things are going fine.  And except for about two years, we've been a one income household (mine).  We don't argue over money.  We never have.

My wife's car is in her name.  Our house is owned jointly.  We are a _partnership_ and our financial arrangement reflects that.  Even though my wife has contributed very little financially to our household.

I do my own laundry, I cook about half the time, and we both do the housework on the weekends.  I also take care of the yard by myself.  My wife doesn't do any of that.  But she's an equal partner in our assets because that's the way it's supposed to be.

I think a lot marriages fail because they let money become the central factor in the marriage.  Marriage isn't about money or, at least, it shouldn't be.  It's about two people becoming one couple and sharing their lives together.  We've gotten along fine for 17 years.  I'm looking forward to next 25 or so (I'll probably be dead by the time I'm 70 since I'm diabetic).

[DaSmerg]

On the decline here in the Great White North apparently...more fuel for Mono's fire!

Fewer Canadians got hitched in 2003: StatsCan -CBC News

[MindlessOath]

Well, my marriage isn't on the rocks.  After 17 years things are going fine.  And except for about two years, we've been a one income household (mine).  We don't argue over money.  We never have.

My wife's car is in her name.  Our house is owned jointly.  We are a _partnership_ and our financial arrangement reflects that.  Even though my wife has contributed very little financially to our household.

I do my own laundry, I cook about half the time, and we both do the housework on the weekends.  I also take care of the yard by myself.  My wife doesn't do any of that.  But she's an equal partner in our assets because that's the way it's supposed to be.

I think a lot marriages fail because they let money become the central factor in the marriage.  Marriage isn't about money or, at least, it shouldn't be.  It's about two people becoming one couple and sharing their lives together.  We've gotten along fine for 17 years.  I'm looking forward to next 25 or so (I'll probably be dead by the time I'm 70 since I'm diabetic).

thats how it should be! but how many people do you know that thats true? doubtfull if you find many.  your right about a money thing - that does play issues for some - greed is a corruptor in life - and i feel men are greedy with what they want to do or own... women should have more rights and they should be equels nothing differnt - irregardless if they dont have more physical streangth.  but then again you have the aspect of money too - i belive some people men or women are greedy - i know alot of women that made there men bankrupt just on there wedding alone - not to mention all the crap they want want want.  they dont understand the concept of money or something, except when it comes to what they want.  these women or men were brought up like that from there family/parents or whatever.

all i have to say is our kids, and your kids havent been brought up the way we all would have liked - and the problem is everyone wants to do what they want to do with no concern about it - but when they make concirn - all hell breaks loose - they should have done it in the first place.

hell i remember a comic strip based on real life - someone working at gamestop or something and the customer was MOMMY and the son was a brat that was litterly no older than 12... probably 9 years old.   the mother didnt care what esrb was, and the kid gets what he wants... even after telling her the rating and whats in the game (in this case GTA) but that same lady is one of those people that if her son killed someone based on something in gta - she would sue the game manufacture.

this is what im talking about - parents ruining the way people are brought up in this world - and in tern (not just that speal i said amoment ago) making ourselfs turn out bad and treat others bad and mabe even greedy etc.  but hey the argument goes, its a free world - so no one cares.  

anyways i belive its all a matter of ethics in some ways, others ehh.  man you could write a book on this subject matter, i havent even covered the topics i could - hell my woman could come up with a whole serise of books based on this subject matter.

granted what i said was fragmented and who knows the spelling issues - i dont really care, just trying to get an opinion out there.

[MONOLITH]

For once I have to agree with a lot of what mindless said, except that it's only a part of the picture. The whole "Don't be a Fred Flintstone" thing is certainly true. Men in general can be complete jerks. But, the woman has some culpability in the fact that she chose him to begin with.

I've seen plenty of idiots yelling across the house to their wives "you didn't do my damn laundry yet, woman!?"

I have prided myself in living with one simple motto; "Why treat your spouse any different than you did when you were dating?"

My wife is forbidden to touch my laundry, I do dishes, I take care of the kids, I clean house, I cook, I still open the car door for her etc. Most marriages fall into a stereotypical disrespectful behavior pattern over time. I just refuse to let it happen. And my wife and I are as much friends as we are spouses. We go out and party together, we can go anywhere together, including strip clubs. We do not feel the need to do girls night out or guys night out or whatever, because we have such a good time together, neither one of us would go out and leave the other at home.

So, we have somewhat of a rare relationship. I can look around at all of my family, and her family, and we consider every marriage we see to be somewhat dysfunctional by comparison.

So, people waking up one day and realizing that their spouse has become a putz is certainly one of the big factors in the downfall of the institution of marriage.

But the even bigger factor is simply society as a whole. The world has changed. The era of the Brady Bunch is long gone. Women's independence, and all of the things that today's media and the internet give us instant access too; there's just a sense of being cooped up in a house doing dishes and changing diapers just doesn't seem to be desirable anymore. In the 1950's it was every womans dream to have a wonderful husband and a cute little house with a white picket fence. And when they realized that was all crap, they couldn't even divorce most of the time because that wasn't as widely accepted back then.

Today, everyone wants freedom, everyone wants careers, everyone wants what they see the cool people on TV doing, and no one quite wants to be chained up and tied down to the whole domesticated thing.

Now of course, when I say 'everyone', that's just a general statement and I know there's plenty of people perfectly happy with the whole domestic thing.

My point is, the very changes that have occurred to society over the last 60 years, are the same things that are making marriage not be a first choice for every person anymore. It used to be the expected norm, now marriage is an option that 51% of the population are saying 'no thanks' to.

[Frozyn]

My parents celebrated their 25th anniversary this past December, and I can only pray and hope that my marriage is as good as theirs.

When I was growing up, I don't remember a single time where they argued in front of me/my brother. I think that's important because it's key in a family to provide a united front to kids. Not that they always did, but that usually came when my Dad was playing a joke on my Mom. Now that I'm older, and they do argue in front of me, that joke always ends up with them calling each other vulgar names and turning it into a huge event which ends with them laughing to the point of tears. As the platitude goes - laughter is the best remedy.

My parents, right before I went off to college, sat me down to make sure that I understood what is, to them, the most important part of any great relationship - Great Sex. Followed by that was trust, and compromise. And that they all had to be two-way roads. They didn't really go into details about that concept in regards to sex - they assumed I had a good idea the meaning.

A great example of the compromise my parents told me about can be shown from my parents. When they married, my Dad was of the belief that all cats should be shot. He hated them, having grown up with dogs all his life. Fast Forward 25 years later and I have about 25 pictures of my Dad playing with the new kitten we have, feeding her, letting her sleep in his lap - all because my Dad made a compromise with my Mom. She could have cats if they were going to move out of New York City.

That may seem like something minute, but I think a lot of people today refuse to compromise, as had been said previously in this thread. I find it ridiculous that so many people today refuse to give and take. I mean, sure, some marriages are doomed to fail because you married the wrong person. But a lot of marriages, that could've been very successful, die in a conflagration of "I want this" and "You can't have that" and whatnot.

If you can trust your partner, and you're willing to compromise with them, and you're willing to try out page 64 of the Kama Sutra (which, in itself, can be a type of compromise), you can have the beginnings of a successful relationship, if you ask me. Just the beginnings - there's a lot of hard work, tears, laughter, and fun that has to go into it as well in order for it to blossom.

[farmboy]

And my wife and I are as much friends as we are spouses. We go out and party together, we can go anywhere together, including strip clubs. We do not feel the need to do girls night out or guys night out or whatever, because we have such a good time together, neither one of us would go out and leave the other at home.

Now, given I'm single and have never even been on a date, but what you've just described is exactly what I'd want my marriage to be like and what, IMO, should be the norm for marriages.  If you commit to spend the rest of your life with a person, (and that's what you say: "till death"), you better be damn sure there's more than sex there.  You better be able to trust your significant other with anything and connect on many, many, many, MANY levels.

So, we have somewhat of a rare relationship. I can look around at all of my family, and her family, and we consider every marriage we see to be somewhat dysfunctional by comparison.

Really?  I guess that's the point of this discussion, isn't it, though?  The death of marriage as an institution.  I guess I'm just an oddity in today's world.