Do you believe in God?

[Reeper]

I found this in another forum I frequent thought you all might enjoy it:

 An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.
He asks one of his new students to stand and.....

Prof: So you believe in God?
Student: Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?
Student: Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student: Yes.

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him.
Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
Student: (Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student: Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?
Student: No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student: From...God...

Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student: Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student: Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?
Student: (Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student: Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?
Student: (Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student: No , sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student: Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.

Student: And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.

Student: No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold.
We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that.
There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat.
We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it?
In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure.
Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor.
Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
Prof: (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize
where the argument is going.)

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir?
Are you not a scientist but a
preacher?
Prof: (The class is in uproar.)

Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?
Prof: (The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable
protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

Prof: (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)
Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

Student: That is it sir.. The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

[el aye]

I'm thinking this belongs.... here http://www.theplatoon.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=29

[nicotineforkids]

Interesting post, but it surely does belong in the Politics and Religion section.

[Headshot]

Yea, it is quite interesting.

[Autoload]

Should this be in the same forum as "Do not shave your man-can"? ;-)

[Jamo]

Very clever, although i doubt that really happened, it was probably thought up and put in that setting just to make it more readable.

I do believe in God. Why? I have no idea.
I dont believe in Religion, i think that was and is just a way of controlling people.
Think about it, if we all KNEW that when we died, the consequences of our lives would take no effect at all, we would be a lot less civilised, and murder and rape would be everyday things. (I believe this anyways)

When i really think about it, then i think God doesnt exist, yet i still believe, just because, i think the vain and simple fact, is that im afraid.
Nobody wants to believe that when we die there is eternal darkness for us.
Everybody likes to be romantic and think we go to this almighty heavenly place.
But there is a little part of me that does believe in life after death. You watch these supernatural programs, ok admittedly not the best source. But some of these stories of reincarnation have good evidence and unexplained facts behind them.

[MrCouch]

ive read about a hundred different variations of this story. this one was the most entertaining.

[Lazerblade]

My views on the topic of religion, religious establishment, faith, and morality are very complex, and I don't know that I could fit my beliefs into a single post. However, if anyone wishes to hear them, sort of in debate-style, I'd be glad to post them. I think for the most part people simply avoid the topic of religion altogether due to the delicate variations of the human understanding and psyche.

[Wolfsong]

I do believe in God. Why? I have no idea.
I dont believe in Religion, i think that was and is just a way of controlling people.

That pretty much sums up my opinions. Remember my title in the old forum? "There is no god, ok!"

[MrCouch]

That pretty much sums up my opinions. Remember my title in the old forum? "There is no god, ok!"

 :hmm:

[TaLoN]

Im sort of in the same boat, but the Vaticant can kiss my catholic ass.  I hope there is an afterlife/reincarnation and value the morals that faith has instilled in me but I cannot and will not follow blindly to the teachings and moral rules
of any organized religion.  I consider myself a good person who treats others kindly.  I dont favor people who cannot understand this or do the same to others.  I trust no one religion because when there are many who contradict each other and all based on Faith, whos right whos wrong and who cares, cause bottom line if your a good person and in the end there actually happens to be a god, im sure he wouldnt give a crap if you went to what ever dinomnation(SP?)
of church every freaking sunday so you could give your money and time to it.

[MaddGIJoe]

This is a really interesting thread we have here.  (I'll figure out something better to say in a bit)

[Rainier]

As Couch as stated, I too have read many versions of this, and yet this is the best.

As of late, I have lost my faith... I am not really sure that there is a God, but I'm not really sure that there's not. There's evidence of both that I see... but if there is a God... He must not have been listening when I prayed...

[Fixxxer]

Do I believe in God? No. Do I believe God may exist? Sure. I won't sit here and deny that God may exist, but before I put all my faith in something that isn't tangible, I must have very very hard proof of "his" existance.

Think about it, if we all KNEW that when we died, the consequences of our lives would take no effect at all, we would be a lot less civilised, and murder and rape would be everyday things. (I believe this anyways)

This I totally don't agree with. I think when you die, you die. There is nothing after this. I don't believe our existance on Earth is to prove ourselves for the next "stage" of life. We're here because this is life. We weren't created, we are just one phase of an ever changing galaxy. Yet here I am, 22 years old and I haven't harmed a soul and having killed anyone. How is that?

Knowing there are no repercussion for our actions now wouldn't make murders out of the nicest people on the planet. That's like asking me if they legalized marijuana in Canada tomorrow, would I go out and light up a fat joint? The answer is no. Laws or rules never stopped anyone from doing anything, it was just a way for letting society know what's acceptable and what isn't.

Everyone lives by there own rules, but the majority of society are the ones who deem what's right and what's wrong. Most people would say drugs are bad and killing is bad so this is what society won't allow.

So like I said the posiblity is always there, but I don't think I'll see anything to make me a believer before I die and am doomed to a life in hell. :tongue:

Basically, I don't have a problem with God, but I'm not too keen on his employees. The fanatics gotta go. There's nothing wrong with believing or having faith, but when you kill "in the name of God", your God is someone I wish not to be associated with.

And after this long run on post, I'm afraid to even come back to see any replies. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to religion because like I said, I can't believe in something I can't see (for lack of a better term). And then you add all the organized religion craziness on top of it and I just can't justify wasting what short time I have on this Earth to believing in something or someone that will turn me into a slave.

Ok, I've said WAAAAY too much that's going to get me into nothing but trouble. All IMO, and sorry in advance to anyone I've offended with my opinion. But that's all it is, my own insignificant opinion so it shouldn't be worth much.

:smile:

[el aye]

Just let you know you're not the only one with these exact thoughts.  It seems like you and I agree one hundred percent on this subject.

My little input is that I have no problem with any religions whatsoever, but I do have problems with the fanatics/extremist people that take their beliefs farther than they need to go.  To me, it sounds like the professor is trying to bash "God" in front of a person who has faith in such a being.  It is people like the professor that I have a problem with, as well as people on the other end that are so wound up in their beliefs that they try to force it on people against their will.  I believe each person has a right to their own beliefs, but they don't have the right to intrude on other's beliefs (such as by saying one person is wrong, this person is right, blah blah).

[Zazoo]

Seems fake anyway. There area a lot of holes in the professor's arguments and the student's arguments.

I'm pretty much in agreement with most here. I'm an agnostic.
I don't believe in religion at all, but "god"? Who knows. If "he/she/they/it" does exist he certainly doen't seem to be the personal god most religions push. So, if anything, the deistic interpretation of "god" seems appropriate.
It's hard to even classify what "god" would be once you get outside of religious definitions. It could be such an abstract thing that no one would recognize it as a "god" in the traditional sense. It's doubtful we would even understand it at all.

Just my 2 cents
~Mike

[BajaBravo]

Seems fake anyway. There area a lot of holes in the professor's arguments and the student's arguments.

I agree. The original article seems very contrived.

As far as God goes, His existence is as obvious to me as the sun in the daytime sky. In my mind, "God" is the the force that organizes life, everything... the system if you will. Science thus far has been able to explain, with varying degrees of success, portions of how the system works but hasn't IMHO been able to grasp the nature of the basic force that organizes. It may have more success in the future, but I believe that there are certain things that are simply beyond human comprehension. It's like trying to explain economics to a fish. Eventually you just give up and eat him.  :wink:

What is equally obvious to me is that any given organized religion has little or nothing to do with God. Many (most?) churches are about social ideology, community discipline (and power), and self-propagation. Not that any of these things are inherently bad - in fact a lot of good comes from organized religion. Unfortuantely history has shown that religions, like all human institutions (including science), are corruptible. I think that spiritual exploration and spiritual community can and do exist in organized religion, but they are certainly not exclusive to, nor are they the sole purpose of, organized religion.

Someone mentioned that without some belief in life after death, people would live their lives without regard to any consequences. IMHO almost the reverse is true. By almost anyone's standard, flying an aircraft full of innocent people into an office building full of innocent people killing thousands, or setting off a bomb in a subway full of innocent people, etc, etc are deeply immoral acts. Unless one is a stark raving sociopath, what could possibly justify such atrocities? Well, knowing that you are doing God's will, that the people you are murdering are godless mercenaries of evil, and that you will be rewarded in paradise for your actions, seems to do the trick.

Fixxxer made a good point. Faith or no faith, moral people live moral lives. I know many people that claim differently because their personal experience is that they were self-destructive until they found faith and now their life is so much better. They see the only path to morality through religion because that's the path they took. IMHO the logic is a bit faulty. For one, there are countless atheists and agnostics that never were self-destructive in the first place. In addition, there are many people that made positive changes in their life motivated by countless other self-actualization factors.

I applaud those people that live well based on their faith. I honestly respect that. What annoys me is when people assume I'm immoral because I don't have the same beliefs they do. What makes me truly angry is when I see people justify obviously immoral or self-destructive acts based on their religion.

A more moderate example than plane hijackings and subway bombings: I know a woman who is deeply Catholic. In her youth she married a man who turned out to be a violent alcoholic. This man beat her and beat their children regularly yet she's been married for decades. Why? Because she believes divorce is a sin (or something like that... I'm not sure exactly how that works) so she endures, justifying his abuse to her - which is bad enough, but also justifying his abuse to their innocent children. At least with her it's a (bad) choice. Her children had no choice.

If I had to make an educated guess, I would probably bet that life after death will be very similar to life before conception, i.e. nothing I am conscious of. I've got one shot to live well as I can, honouring those that came before me and serving those who will come after me. I am more motivated to live up to that standard than I am the possibility of punishment or reward after death.

I hope I have NOT offended too many people with my views. It's just how I look at it personally. I don't expect anyone else to see it the same way.

[Lazerblade]

I hope I have offended too many people with my views. It's just how I look at it personally. I don't expect anyone else to see it the same way.

I assume this is a typo. Anyway, I'm truly surprised that there are as many people on this forum that share my same exact beliefs as there are. I expected so many more of you all to be on the other end of the fulcrum, weighing down the religious side.

I believe that religion was created for the sole purpose of moral control. By this I mean that religious leaders' goals were ONLY to teach society how to act on a basis of morality. Through the use of stories and characterizations the bible has given countless numbers of preachers, priests, fathers and whatever other religious titles the means of turning society into a flock of sheep. Ironic, isn't it?

I believe that the bible is a work of fiction, since the majority of those locations, items, and monuments depicted in the stories cannot be found anywhere. But more than the lack of physical evidence is the abundance of impossible feats of mere mortals, lending the credibility more and more to the likeness of fiction.

Anyway, I definitely agree with the nuisances of the overly-religious preaching about right and wrong, moral and loathsome, good and evil- nearly every self-proclaimed "christian" I've ever met, including many in my own family, practice hypocrisy more than they do christianity! Vulgar language when they are angered, smoking, drinking, adultery, thievery- there's no limit to the sins I've witnessed by this group I've been exposed to.

I'm not perfect- nobody is- but I certainly consider myself of high moral standard and honorable in society. Perhaps this world needs more agnostic/atheist people, not less.

[BajaBravo]

I assume this is a typo.

Opps.  

[DaSmerg]

I think the real question missing is the one asked in the Simpsons...can God microwave a burrito so hot even he, himself can't eat it ?

Seriusly now.  Lot's of BIG and eloquently thought out posts here.

I personally believe in a higher power but it is simply beyond our understanding.  There are some signs of some kind of higher power beyond our own...like the simple fact that so many people, for so long and from every corner of our population believe in a god or gods of some sort is just one example.  I don't believe in a particular organized religion but I have drawn personal beliefs from many that I have been able to study during my life so far.