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Zazoo
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« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2005, 06:52:16 PM » |
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So, you would agree that fighting for freedom *IS* a noble cause??
Yes. Of course, starting a war for reasons that don't end up being true and then trying to deflect the responsibility for your poor judgement and rash decisions by falling back on humantarian reasons (because those are the only reasons to fall back on) does sort of suck a lot of "nobility" out of it. This war is a war to "free the Irai people" because that's the only reason the administration has left to use. hind site is always 20-20.... So basically, oops and oh well? Tell it to the families of the fallen. The simple fact is that we are there so the people of Iraq can live free out from under the heel of a ruthless psychotic dictator. THAT is the fact and no amount of selfish compassionless diatribe from the anti-Bush crowd can change that one simple fact.
Now all they have to worry about is the ruthless psychotic chaos of the insurgency and the terrorists. And don't forget that they are COMPLETELY dependent on the US for their security and "freedom" right now. Don't fool yourself, these people aren't "free" yet. And Iraq's future is very uncertain right now. I also find it troubling that some people actually think the US went over ther for purely humanitarian reasons. Bush and his administration were so troubled about the ruthless Saddam hurting his people that they felt a moral obligation to act?  So, now your complaint is money?  ? Or, assuming you mean the cost in lives... You know exactly what I meant -- lives, money, and credibility. I said this earlier. And if you are going to continue to make statements like these... Well, the US is the world's policeman, like it or not. Another one of those pesky little facts that always crop up. Ergo, we have a moral obligation to stand up to the Saddams of the world. Right... And, our government was FREELY elected by the people to make those kinds of decisions for us. OUR government (yours, mine, every Americans) made the decision. Now it is YOUR job, as a patriotic American, to support the troops, not turn your back on them. ...then I see no point in continuing. I enjoy discussing/debating with people since it helps me flesh out and explore my own opinions, but I have nothing to gain from an exchange with someone who has been so blinded by their ideology that they can't even form a well-reasoned argument (IMHO). I'll reply in response to anything I've already commented on, but other than that... I'm done. Thanks, ~Mike |
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Fixxxer
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« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2005, 07:18:25 PM » |
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Right... And, our government was FREELY elected by the people to make those kinds of decisions for us. OUR government (yours, mine, every Americans) made the decision. Now it is YOUR job, as a patriotic American, to support the troops, not turn your back on them. Turn your backs? You live in a democracy and yet you take it for granted. Speaking out against your government does not mean you're turning your back on the troops, you're exercisng your right to express how you feel. Saying your government is now using a BS excuse to validate their reasons for entering/starting a war doesn't mean you're turing your backs on the troops, it means you're trying to get the ones that are still alive the hell out of their before they die in vain. Jesus Christ, how can you sit there and believe the shit these people tell you? Do you seriously believe you should just obey your goverment without question? Whatever they say is exactly what you should believe in? This is getting out of hand. This goes beyond a dictatorship. People in Germany under the rule of Hitler were scared shitless of him. They didn't speak out because they knew they would die. Same goes for the Saddam regiem. But this, you live in a world where your goverment can tell you anything and you believe it. It's not that you won't question them because you fear for your life, you don't question them because you believe them, regardless of what they say. This is getting so ridiculous. |
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58% of all deaths are fatal.
99% of all lawyers ruin it for the rest of them.
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SODsniper
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« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2005, 07:40:38 PM » |
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Yes.
Of course, starting a war for reasons that don't end up being true and then trying to deflect the responsibility for your poor judgement and rash decisions by falling back on humantarian reasons (because those are the only reasons to fall back on) does sort of suck a lot of "nobility" out of it.
This war is a war to "free the Irai people" because that's the only reason the administration has left to use.
As I said.. Hind sight is 20 20... It's easy to make the RIGHT decision *AFTER* the fact. But at least we do agree that fighting for a people's freedom, which is what we are doing in Iraq, IS a noble cause. Cindy Sheehan's question has now been answered. Of course, she really doesn't WANT it answered, as she has already said.
So basically, oops and oh well? Tell it to the families of the fallen.
Oops??? Iraq is free today. That doesn't sound like an "oops" to me.
Now all they have to worry about is the ruthless psychotic chaos of the insurgency and the terrorists. And don't forget that they are COMPLETELY dependent on the US for their security and "freedom" right now. Don't fool yourself, these people aren't "free" yet. And Iraq's future is very uncertain right now.
And the Anti Bush crowd would have us just pull up stakes and leave.. Yea.. THAT is a good decision, eh?? I also find it troubling that some people actually think the US went over ther for purely humanitarian reasons. Bush and his administration were so troubled about the ruthless Saddam hurting his people that they felt a moral obligation to act? I know you don't mean me when you say "some people". Regardless of whether or not that was the intent at the time, it was still the right thing to do. Or would you castigate someone for doing the RIGHT thing for the wrong reason???
You know exactly what I meant -- lives, money, and credibility. I said this earlier.
If I knew what you meant, I would have stated so.
And if you are going to continue to make statements like these...
...then I see no point in continuing. I enjoy discussing/debating with people since it helps me flesh out and explore my own opinions, but I have nothing to gain from an exchange with someone who has been so blinded by their ideology that they can't even form a well-reasoned argument (IMHO).
I'll reply in response to anything I've already commented on, but other than that... I'm done. Thanks,
~Mike
"Blinded by idealogy"??? BBWWWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You really have NO clue what I am about. You might be shocked to find out that I disagree with Bush on MANY MANY issues. My wife is bi-sexual, so our social/sexual attitudes are far FAR different from Bush, as you might well imagine. I disagree vehemently with Bush's stance vis a vis the Terry Schiavo affair, which happened in my own backyard, thank you very much. And, I personally believe that orgainized religion is a lame crutch that people use when they do not have the will to stand on their own two feet. You can probably figure out for yourself that that stance differs greatly from Bush's... So, please do not stoop to making assumptions about me that are based on almost zero knowledge. My "ideology" is based on one thing and one thing only. Having walked the walk and been under hostile fire, I know what it is like for the troops overseas. And I know how it is to see the scumbags like the Anti Bush crowd sacrifice the honor and integrity of our fighting men and women on their altar of their rose-colored view of the world. SODsniper |
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SODsniper
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« Reply #63 on: August 24, 2005, 07:44:37 PM » |
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Turn your backs? You live in a democracy and yet you take it for granted. Speaking out against your government does not mean you're turning your back on the troops, you're exercisng your right to express how you feel. Saying your government is now using a BS excuse to validate their reasons for entering/starting a war doesn't mean you're turing your backs on the troops, it means you're trying to get the ones that are still alive the hell out of their before they die in vain.
Jesus Christ, how can you sit there and believe the shit these people tell you? Do you seriously believe you should just obey your goverment without question? Whatever they say is exactly what you should believe in? This is getting out of hand. This goes beyond a dictatorship. People in Germany under the rule of Hitler were scared shitless of him. They didn't speak out because they knew they would die. Same goes for the Saddam regiem. But this, you live in a world where your goverment can tell you anything and you believe it. It's not that you won't question them because you fear for your life, you don't question them because you believe them, regardless of what they say.
This is getting so ridiculous. Oh give me a freekin' break!!!! There is a HUGE difference between questioning your government and calling your President a terrorist and a murderer.. YES OR NO??? There is a HUGE difference between voicing your dissent and making outrageous claims of "NUCLEAR WAR" in Iraq. YES OR NO??? There is a BIG difference between the former and the latter and you damn well know it! What Sheehan and her ilk are doing is NOT questioning their government. They are villifying their president and the troops at every oppurtunity and I defy anyone to say otherwise. The proof is in the media every day. SODsniper |
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Fixxxer
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« Reply #64 on: August 24, 2005, 07:52:22 PM » |
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What Sheehan and her ilk are doing is NOT questioning their government.r I'm not talking about her, she's a loon, I'm talking about you and your bogus claims about "turing your backs" on the troops. Being patriotic doesn't mean blindly following your government. Not EVERY American voted for Bush (and I'm not even talking about Bush alone, no matter who's in charge and what they're doing you have the RIGHT to speak out) so to say everyone HAS to support the troops because it's their moral obligation as a patriotic American is COMPLETE hogwash. |
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58% of all deaths are fatal.
99% of all lawyers ruin it for the rest of them.
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SODsniper
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« Reply #65 on: August 24, 2005, 08:02:37 PM » |
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I'm not talking about her, she's a loon, I'm talking about you and your bogus claims about "turing your backs" on the troops.
In that case, my apologies. I thought you were talking about "the loon"...
Being patriotic doesn't mean blindly following your government. Not EVERY American voted for Bush (and I'm not even talking about Bush alone, no matter who's in charge and what they're doing you have the RIGHT to speak out) so to say everyone HAS to support the troops because it's their moral obligation as a patriotic American is COMPLETE hogwash.
I disagree. Those troops are there to guarantee the freedoms of EVERY American. Therefore they deserve the respect of EVERY American. Just like, you may not agree with the every action of your local police force, but you really should respect them for what they do to keep you safe. However, no one is talking about BLIND loyalty. Obviously such loyalty must be tempered with judgement and compassion. But in the current climate, I am appalled at the lack of compassion for the Iraqi people. To hear the Anti Bush crowd tell it, they would prefer that Saddam was still in power... Go figger.... SODsniper |
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DaSmerg
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« Reply #66 on: August 24, 2005, 08:25:27 PM » |
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And I know how it is to see the scumbags like the Anti Bush crowd sacrifice the honor and integrity of our fighting men and women on their altar of their rose-colored view of the world. A rose coloured view of the world is that military might can effect a kind of change like bringing democracy to parts of the world thinking they will want it. IMHO you're confusing the line between supporting the troops and support for the politicians who decide where and who the troops go and fight and how that fight is carried out. I don't see any of 'crazy leftist' remarks anywhere here that suggest an immediate pull out. Rather, many folks here are asking the same question, why are American soldiers dying for an Iraqi democracy when it was made clear when this was started in motion that this was one of the many supposedly good things that would come out of an invasion. This is not to say that the United States and several other nations in the world could not help the Iraqi's in their quest for a democratic state, but, again, this was not the rationale for putting thousands of American's lives at risk, it was supposed to be one of many effects of putting those troops into action. It then becomes confusing and a question of why? when the reason you went in the first place is a false reason. The cries of why? grow louder when a new reason is put forward as why troops are still there. Again, I don't care to delve into the why part. It's at a point of we're there and this is the job that has to be done correctly. Politicans...not troops on the ground...don't confuse the two...it is the politicians at home who have made very serious miscalculations that have cost lives, manipulated the truth, under-equipped and/or mis-equipped the troops and have not yet layed out a coherent plan for success (after more than 2 years). It should be self eveident that these politicians should no longer be in charge of this operation and they should be answering the very serious questions being raised about the decisions they have made. Real people are paying a heavy price, every day, for these political mistakes and it is a situation that should not be allowed to continue or blindly supported. |
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Zazoo
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« Reply #67 on: August 24, 2005, 08:30:33 PM » |
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As I said.. Hind sight is 20 20... It's easy to make the RIGHT decision *AFTER* the fact. The hindsight is our realization that the president wasn't upfront with us about this war and its reasons. For that the American people who supported going into this war can be forgiven. It doesn't excuse this administration's carelessness and deception though. That can't be written off as a lack of hindsight. But at least we do agree that fighting for a people's freedom, which is what we are doing in Iraq, IS a noble cause.
Yes. I hope that the soldiers over there succeed in making Iraq a stable democratic society. I think a great majority of the soldiers in Iraq really do want to help the Iraqi people. I know they take pride in what they do. But our soldiers did not start this war, our government did. And they didn't send our troops over there just so the Iraqi's could be free. It would be great if our government was that selfless and philanthropic, but it isn't -- no matter how much you build up that fantasy in your head (you want to talk about looking at the world through rose-colored glasses... :roll: ). Oops??? Iraq is free today. That doesn't sound like an "oops" to me. Just because this war can have a good outcome (a free Iraq) doesn't mean the Bush administration gets off with out having to give an explaination for the collosal mess they got us into. And the Anti Bush crowd would have us just pull up stakes and leave.. Yea.. THAT is a good decision, eh?? No. I never said it was. I already said we had to STAY and FIX what we have done. We can't leave a country without a government, we have to follow it through. It's called taking responsibility for your mistakes. I know you don't mean me when you say "some people". Regardless of whether or not that was the intent at the time, it was still the right thing to do. Or would you castigate someone for doing the RIGHT thing for the wrong reason??? Yes I meant you, and yes I would. And no, it is not "regardless of whether or not that was the intent at the time" you can't blow that off. That is a HUGE issuse. I can't believe you are seriously suggesting that the President of the government of the worlds only remaining superpower shouldn't be chastised and made to answer for his bad decisions and misdirection as long as the outcome was good. People in leadership position HAVE to have GOOD reasons for doing things, we can't justify the action after the fact by looking at the outcome. That is reckless to the point of being criminal and obscene. Doing the right thing for the wrong reason is NOT ok. Especially not for someone who holds such a powerful position. If I knew what you meant, I would have stated so. Fine... then you are just plain obtuse? Which is it, because I clearly stated what I meant earlier. "Blinded by idealogy"??? BBWWWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You really have NO clue what I am about.
You might be shocked to find out that I disagree with Bush on MANY MANY issues. My wife is bi-sexual, so our social/sexual attitudes are far FAR different from Bush, as you might well imagine. I disagree vehemently with Bush's stance vis a vis the Terry Schiavo affair, which happened in my own backyard, thank you very much.
And, I personally believe that orgainized religion is a lame crutch that people use when they do not have the will to stand on their own two feet. You can probably figure out for yourself that that stance differs greatly from Bush's...
So, please do not stoop to making assumptions about me that are based on almost zero knowledge.
My "ideology" is based on one thing and one thing only. Having walked the walk and been under hostile fire, I know what it is like for the troops overseas. And I know how it is to see the scumbags like the Anti Bush crowd sacrifice the honor and integrity of our fighting men and women on their altar of their rose-colored view of the world.
Um, I didn't label you as being of any specific ideology (you are the one throwing around labels). Your "ideology" was in reference to the views you've expressed in this thread -- your thoughts on the US's place in this world, the justification of the war, etc. I never assumed, nor said, anything about your views on a person's sexual preference, religion, or right to life. *shrug* Anyway, if you insist on being a jackass about expressing your views don't expect people to be receptive to your ideas. ~Mike |
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SilentEdge
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« Reply #68 on: August 24, 2005, 08:35:10 PM » |
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*Redirects topic*
Since this topic was originally about Cindy Sheehan, I want to get some of y'alls takes on her since she has re-captured the lime light.
Has your oppinion of her changed since you first heard about the "peace mom"?
More from me later. I'm still at orientation. Weeeeee
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Dr.Jeckyl
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« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2005, 08:49:34 PM » |
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*Redirects topic*
Has your oppinion of her changed since you first heard about the "peace mom"?
not mine. :smile: |
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Not knowing what 2girls1cup was, I googled it. Now I hate you.
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SODsniper
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« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2005, 08:57:48 PM » |
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The hindsight is our realization that the president wasn't upfront with us about this war and its reasons. For that the American people who supported going into this war can be forgiven. It doesn't excuse this administration's carelessness and deception though. That can't be written off as a lack of hindsight.
Do you expect your government to tell you everything about everything?? Do you really WANT a government that tells everyone the whole truth and nothing but the truth?? I can tell you that such a government will not be a government for long...
Yes. I hope that the soldiers over there succeed in making Iraq a stable democratic society. I think a great majority of the soldiers in Iraq really do want to help the Iraqi people. I know they take pride in what they do.
Then you agree that the US Public should support those troops in their efforts, right???
But our soldiers did not start this war, our government did. And they didn't send our troops over there just so the Iraqi's could be free. It would be great if our government was that selfless and philanthropic, but it isn't -- no matter how much you build up that fantasy in your head (you want to talk about looking at the world through rose-colored glasses... :roll: ).
Mistakes were made... There is no denying that. Intelligence was faulty.. Again, no denying that. But we're there. We have to do the best we can with the hand we were dealt. And Cindy Sheehan and her crowd are making it HARDER to do that, not easier... That is my whole point.
Just because this war can have a good outcome (a free Iraq) doesn't mean the Bush administration gets off with out having to give an explaination for the collosal mess they got us into.
Three different commissions concluded that the Bush Administration did not intentionally lie or deceive.. How much longer can the Anti Bush crowd keep beating that old and dead horse???
No. I never said it was. I already said we had to STAY and FIX what we have done. We can't leave a country without a government, we have to follow it through. It's called taking responsibility for your mistakes.
I believe that Bush and his administration have admitted that mistakes were made.. What more does the Anti Bush crowd want?? And I am glad to hear that you agree we need to STAY and fix the problems. But do you think Cindy Sheehan and her crowd are HELPING or HURTING the effort to do what needs to be done???
Yes I meant you, and yes I would.
And no, it is not "regardless of whether or not that was the intent at the time" you can't blow that off. That is a HUGE issuse.
I can't believe you are seriously suggesting that the President of the government of the worlds only remaining superpower shouldn't be chastised and made to answer for his bad decisions and misdirection as long as the outcome was good. People in leadership position HAVE to have GOOD reasons for doing things, we can't justify the action after the fact by looking at the outcome. That is reckless to the point of being criminal and obscene.
Doing the right thing for the wrong reason is NOT ok. Especially not for someone who holds such a powerful position.
Chastised??? You call accusations of being a terrorist and a murderer "chastisement"??? You call sensationalistic and BS claims of "NUCLEAR WAR" in Iraq a proper way to "question" your government? Do you???
Fine... then you are just plain obtuse? Which is it, because I clearly stated what I meant earlier.
Um, I didn't label as being of any specific ideology (you are the one throwing around labels). Your "ideology" was in reference to the views you've expressed in this thread -- your thoughts on the US's place in this world, the justification of the war, etc.
I never assumed, nor said, anything about your views on a person's sexual preference, religion, or right to life. *shrug*
Anyway, if you insist on being a jackass about expressing your views don't expect people to be receptive of your ideas.
~Mike
So, you believe that you can discern my ENTIRE ideology simply from my views posted in this one thread?? WOW... Impressive.... And it is also interesting to note that, when confronted with logic and rationale discourse, the Anti Bush crowd resorts to personal name-calling. Note, that I have never directed ANY of my posts specifically to you. You, obviously, could not do me the same courtesy.. I am truly sorry if I don't debate and discuss according to YOUR specifications. But, if the Anti-Bush crowd would not be so vindictive and narrow-minded I would not really have so much to build on, eh??? That is the problem with the Anti-Bush crowd.. They do not stand for anything... All they are is Anti Bush. They have no purpose in life, nor any reason for existence, other than the be Anti Bush.... That is what makes them such an easy target for logical and rational debate. SODsniper |
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The Statue Of Liberty is no longer standing in New York Harbor with a sign that says, "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses."
She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me!!??"
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SODsniper
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« Reply #71 on: August 24, 2005, 09:00:11 PM » |
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*Redirects topic*
Since this topic was originally about Cindy Sheehan, I want to get some of y'alls takes on her since she has re-captured the lime light.
Has your oppinion of her changed since you first heard about the "peace mom"?
More from me later. I'm still at orientation. Weeeeee Nope.. The latest posts from Sheehan over at Huffington simply re-enforce my belief that she is nothing but a media-addict. She started her posts with Camp Casey Day One, Day Two, etc etc etc, but then she turned her entire blog into being about her. She has a funny way of "honoring" her son. Especially when you consider that SHE ALONE wants to "honor" her son in this manner. The ENTIRE rest of the family wants her to simply shut the hell up... SODsniper |
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The Statue Of Liberty is no longer standing in New York Harbor with a sign that says, "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses."
She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me!!??"
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Zazoo
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« Reply #72 on: August 24, 2005, 09:10:30 PM » |
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the Anti Bush crowd resorts to personal name-calling. Note, that I have never directed ANY of my posts specifically to you. You, obviously, could not do me the same courtesy.. "Jackass" was a reference to your attitude and demeanor, not your arguments. I'm sorry if it was a little harsh but since I consider myself "left of center" and in agreement with a lot of the things you oppose I consider terms like "loony", "nuts" extremely condescending and insulting. Just because you direct your name-calling at a viewpoint instead of person it doesn't make it "ok". You're insulting everyone that holds that view. ~Mike |
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SODsniper
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« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2005, 10:10:23 PM » |
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Sorry if ya find that offensive, but I think such a viewpoint IS loony etc etc. Because it is based in emotionalism and selective compassion. It shows an elitest view that I find particularly galling.... But, that's probably just me... SODsniper |
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The Statue Of Liberty is no longer standing in New York Harbor with a sign that says, "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses."
She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me!!??"
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Zazoo
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« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2005, 11:31:38 PM » |
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Sorry if ya find that offensive, but I think such a viewpoint IS loony etc etc. Because it is based in emotionalism and selective compassion. It shows an elitest view that I find particularly galling.... But, that's probably just me... Which viewpoint? You've went off about a handful of different viewpoints. Some I actually hold, others I never held but you decided to ascribe them to me anyway (hence my annoyance). Using words like "loony" to descripe your opponent's viewpoints is an emotional (and mindless) response. I, and others here, find a handful of your arguments baseless and extremely illogical. Yet you feel no need to explain them beyond calling the opposing view point "loony" or posting up a vacuous talking-point. If that is what passes as logical reasoned arguments in your neck of the woods then so be it. ~Mike |
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SODsniper
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« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2005, 11:40:23 PM » |
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Which viewpoint? You've went off about a handful of different viewpoints. Some I actually hold, others I never held but you decided to ascribe them to me anyway (hence my annoyance).
Using words like "loony" to descripe your opponent's viewpoints is an emotional (and mindless) response.
Not really.. It is an accurate representation of how I feel about Cindy Sheehan's viewpoints. She has been described as a "loon" by others in this thread as well, so I guess I am not alone in describing the viewpoint as "looney", eh??
I, and others here,
Let us allow those "others" to speak for themselves, K?
find a handful of your arguments baseless and extremely illogical. Yet you feel no need to explain them beyond calling the opposing view point "loony" or posting up a vacuous talking-point.
You haven't ASKED for any explanations of how and why I feel the way I do. So do not blame me for lack of explaining what you have not requested.
If that is what passes as logical reasoned arguments in your neck of the woods then so be it.
~Mike
Close enough for government work.. Maybe you could enlighten me as to which parts of my viewpoint are confusing to you and require "explanation"... SODsniper |
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She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me!!??"
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DaSmerg
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« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2005, 11:46:51 PM » |
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Lecturing from the GOP talking point guidebook with some splashes of regurgitated FOX news babble. You just have to love the massive sweeping generalizations. I really wish things were as simplistic as support the troops = support the government. I bet a lot of folks do also. To put someone up on a pedistal and never question any decisions made is elitism. Questioning authority, even challenging it at times is advanced democracy. Has your oppinion of her changed since you first heard about the "peace mom"? Has my opinion changed? No, not really at all. This is a political miscalculation turned media circus that was totally self created by not simply meeting with someone, if even for 5 mins. But I guess that chopping wood photo op must have figured to play better at the time. |
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SODsniper
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« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2005, 11:57:44 PM » |
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Lecturing from the GOP talking point guidebook with some splashes of regurgitated FOX news babble. You just have to love the massive sweeping generalizations.
I really wish things were as simplistic as support the troops = support the government. I bet a lot of folks do also.
Those who have been "the troops" DO see it as simple....
To put someone up on a pedistal and never question any decisions made is elitism. Questioning authority, even challenging it at times is advanced democracy.
I will re-iterate. There is not a problem with Sheehan or ANYONE "questioning authority"... It is the MANNER in how authority is questioned that is of concern to Americans. In the 60s and 70s, the Black Panthers "questioned authority" by murdering Police Officers. Surely that kind of "questioning of authority" is not being condoned here....
Has my opinion changed? No, not really at all. This is a political miscalculation turned media circus that was totally self created by not simply meeting with someone, if even for 5 mins. But I guess that chopping wood photo op must have figured to play better at the time.
President Bush *DID* meet with Sheehan already once.. What are you advocating?? That your President be at the beck and call of someone who is so obviously subjourned by a group of people that rabidly hate the president and the country??? SODsniper |
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The Statue Of Liberty is no longer standing in New York Harbor with a sign that says, "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses."
She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me!!??"
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DaSmerg
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« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2005, 12:22:23 AM » |
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Those who have been "the troops" DO see it as simple.... I'm from a military family. 5 generations of military men and woman in fact who served their country when called upon and/or volunteered for military service as a career. In the 60s and 70s, the Black Panthers "questioned authority" by murdering Police Officers. Surely that kind of "questioning of authority" is not being condoned here.... So opposing what was an apartheid government by any means possible in order to fomate change is not a good thing to do? What exaclty is your point here because you've used about the worst possible example you could have. President Bush *DID* meet with Sheehan already once.. What are you advocating?? That your President be at the beck and call of someone who is so obviously subjourned by a group of people that rabidly hate the president and the country??? We have a Prime Minister here, not a President :wink: And yes, one of the duties of an elected official is to be at the beck and call of those who elected him or her and even those who did not, nor will ever vote for them. That's why they call it "public office" and these positions are re-elected. Cindy Sheehan doesn't hate her country. Where on earth are you getting this nonesense from? She simply wanted to meet with the President, asked, was denied, started holding a vigil as close as she could get to his ranch while he was on vacation in order to bring attention to her cause. The President decided not to meet with her and that decision is to blame for everything else to come from that decision, not Cindy Sheehan. IMHO it was a simple request that should have and could have easily been met and would have totally disarmed any spiraling media frenzy like what is happening now. You quite obviously don't see it that way. Great. But don't talk down to me because 'I don't know...you were never in Nam'. That's yet another form of that elitism you eluded to above :wink: . |
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SODsniper
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« Reply #79 on: August 25, 2005, 12:22:45 AM » |
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MOVE OVER, CINDY: BUSH SINGLES OUT OTHER MILITARY MOM
Wed Aug 24 2005 16:53:27 ET
NAMPA, Idaho -- President Bush today took direct aim at Cindy Sheehan, the anti-war protester who has set up camp near the Bushes Texas ranch and purports to speak for military moms who, like her, have lost a son in the Iraq war.
Speaking to hundreds of Idaho National Guardsmen, the president singled out military mom Tammy Pruett of Pocatello, Idaho, whose husband and five sons have all served in Iraq.
"Tammy has four sons serving in Iraq right now with the Idaho National Guard: Eric, Evan, Greg and Jeff. Last year her husband, Leon, and another son, Aaron, returned from Iraq, where they helped train Iraqi firefighters in Mosul.
"Tammy says this -- and I want you to hear this -- 'I know that if something happens to one of the boys, they would leave this world doing what they believe, what they think is right for our country.'
"And I guess you couldn't ask for a better way of life than giving it for something that you believe in. America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruetts."
The crowd, made up mostly of military family members, broke into cheers and chants of "U-S-A! U-S-A!"
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The Statue Of Liberty is no longer standing in New York Harbor with a sign that says, "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses."
She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me!!??"
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