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Author Topic: Ahmadinejad's UN Speech  (Read 831 times)
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MONOLITH
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« on: September 20, 2006, 04:01:27 PM »

I hope people are paying attention to this.

This man truly believes it is his duty to hasten the Apocolypse, cleanse the earth with fire and blood, to bring about a new global monotheic Islamic kingdom. He literally said it in front of the UN. And he is hastily working on nukes while he stalls the international community.

What is wrong with the world, that they are willing to turn a blind eye to this lunatic until it's too late?

Memories of 1942. Except the damage this nutjob can do, while allied with Russia and China, is far worse than Hitler.

I truly fear for my childrens future, and the future of this country.

Don't doubt for a second that Putin and China wouldn't mind seeing the US knocked down; and Ahmadinejad is determined to do it.



http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iran/2005/iran-050918-irna02.htm


If you know about this mans beliefs, you'll understand what these closing words actually mean....

"As the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran, I assure you that my country will use everything in its power to contribute to global tranquility and peace based on the two maxims of spirituality and justice as well as the equal rights of all peoples and nations.

My country will interact and cooperate constructively with the international community to face the challenges before us.

"Dear Friends and Colleagues,
"From the beginning of time, humanity has longed for the day when justice, peace, equality and compassion envelop the world. All of us can contribute to the establishment of such a world. When that day comes, the ultimate promise of all Divine religions will be fulfilled with the emergence of a perfect human being who is heir to all prophets and pious men. He will lead the world to justice and absolute peace.

"O mighty Lord, I pray to you to hasten the emergence of your last repository, the promised one, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace."



Clearly, we know that Ahminejad does not believe in 'equal rights of all peoples'. There's a reason why Ahminejad can show up in NY with reasonable safety, but Bush could never give a speech in Iran.

His spirituality and justice, are everyone must follow the muslim faith, and justice means your head cut off if you do not.

His contribution to creating global tranquility, is to use nukes to cleanse the earth of infidels. In his closing sentence, according to the muslim faith, the only way the last repository, the 'perfect pure human' can come to earth, is only after it has been cleansed in bloodshed.

This would be the exact same thing as the Pope saying we must kill all muslims in order for Jesus to return. And as soon as we do it, he will come, so let's get it on....

Wake up sleepy coddled easy-livin' westerners. Rough days are coming.

What are you going to do when suitcase nukes go off in 6 major US cities, and 100,000 suicidal 'sleeper cell' members walk into schools and shopping malls all over the country and start blowing away as many people as they can with Ak-47s and handgrenades.

This country needs to wipe the delusional bliss out of it's eyes and get ready for the reality of the world.




.
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Dr.Jeckyl
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2006, 06:50:11 PM »

this is starting to sound all too familiar and i'm not liking it at all.
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2006, 06:58:34 PM »

the world is doomed no matter what way you look at it... its just the fact that he wants to make it a world that he invisions is the sad part.
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 03:12:55 AM »

I dunno anymore.

Most definately Ahmadinejad's government isn't doing anything to help the people of Iran at the moment (considering he was elected on a platform of promised economic reforms which could lead to his demise before his time is up).

But seeing as doubt has been recently cast on published U.S. intelligence on Iran's nuclear program and that this doubt includes political influence in the intellegence gathering process (haven't we seen this once before already...somewhere?), this definatley clouds my view.

See, the other problem here too is that the United States is really in absolutely no position to be the authority deciding for the world who should and should not be aquiring nuclear weapons technology being not only the largest nuclear weapons holder but still the only nation to use nuclear weapons during a time of war.  This is most definately an issue for the world at large to sort out together and with some level of urgency.

Hence...I don't know anymore.
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2006, 03:47:50 AM »

Quote from: DaSmerg
...but still the only nation to use nuclear weapons during a time of war.

I'm sorry, how many soldiers did your country lose during the invasion of the Japanese Mainland? I forgot.

How many of your relatives never came home because of the American decision to end the war without a long occupation (which is exactly what you're now complaining about in Iraq)?

NONE and NONE. Lives were saved by our willingness to go the last full measure, and I'm Goddamned proud of it.
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DaSmerg
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2006, 08:36:32 PM »

You may not like to hear it, but it's a reality your country has no choice but to live with Edge.

The U.S. being at the table or taking a lead role in nuclear weapons proliferation, while not only exceedingly sensible and at the same time admirable, also serves as a huge stumbling block with also a face value appearance of being extremely hypocritical, hence the need for a broad global approach.  Sadly working this way usually takes longer and adds more chiefs to the table who all seem to end up with their own ideas and own solutions.

This discussion doesn't have much, if anything, to do with who's dick was bigger in World War II, so not going to bother going there.

P.S.  I'm pretty sure Hugo Chavez took this year's Loony-toon leader award.  I mean, even senior and oft Bush-bashing Dem's were admonishing Chavez for his completely out there commentary.  Oh well, I guess Chavez should enjoy it while it lasts I guess?  After 2008, dunno who he's going to be able to pin all the world's problems on?
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MONOLITH
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2006, 11:12:56 PM »

I ask politely Smerg;

Your rebuttle goes straight to "America has no right too......"

Whilst completely ignoring that Ahmadinejad has already told the world Isreal should be, and will be destroyed.

He was one of the terrorist hostage takers during that whole Jimmy Carter era crisis.

He funds terrorists groups like Hezbollah and Hamas.

God knows what he's doing that we can't see.

And in front of the United Nations and the entire world, he prays to hasten the coming of the 12th Imam to create a single muslim world, and the 12th Imam can only be manifested by purging the earth of infidels through fire and bloodshed.

:hmm:

All of this is okay for him to have a nuclear program, but you can only find fault with the US.

Don't make me break out the 'L' word.....   :tongue:

PS.  I don't know about WW2, but my dick is definately the biggest here today. :wink:
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MONOLITH
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2006, 11:19:29 PM »

From Wikipedia

Hojjatieh is a semi-clandestine Iranian organization which is radically anti-Bahá'í and anti-Sunni. The group flourished during the 1979 revolution that ousted the Shah and installed an Islamic government in his place. However it was banned in 1983 by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the father of the revolution.

They believe that chaos must be created to hasten the return of the Mahdi, the 12th Shi'ite Imam. Only then, they argue, can a genuine Islamic republic be established.

The current president of Iran Mahmud Ahmadinejad is rumored to be an advocate of this group through the influence of his mentor, the Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, who is also currently the highest ranking member in the organization.
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MONOLITH
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2006, 11:34:10 PM »

"Canada's then Prime Minister Paul Martin said, "this threat to Israel's existence, this call for genocide coupled with Iran's obvious nuclear ambitions is a matter that the world cannot ignore."
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MONOLITH
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2006, 11:49:40 PM »

'Divine mission' driving Iran's new leader
By Anton La Guardia


(Filed: 14/01/2006)



As Iran rushes towards confrontation with the world over its nuclear programme, the question uppermost in the mind of western leaders is "What is moving its President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to such recklessness?"

Political analysts point to the fact that Iran feels strong because of high oil prices, while America has been weakened by the insurgency in Iraq.

   
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
But listen carefully to the utterances of Mr Ahmadinejad - recently described by President George W Bush as an "odd man" - and there is another dimension, a religious messianism that, some suspect, is giving the Iranian leader a dangerous sense of divine mission.

In November, the country was startled by a video showing Mr Ahmadinejad telling a cleric that he had felt the hand of God entrancing world leaders as he delivered a speech to the UN General Assembly last September.

When an aircraft crashed in Teheran last month, killing 108 people, Mr Ahmadinejad promised an investigation. But he also thanked the dead, saying: "What is important is that they have shown the way to martyrdom which we must follow."

The most remarkable aspect of Mr Ahmadinejad's piety is his devotion to the Hidden Imam, the Messiah-like figure of Shia Islam, and the president's belief that his government must prepare the country for his return.

One of the first acts of Mr Ahmadinejad's government was to donate about £10 million to the Jamkaran mosque, a popular pilgrimage site where the pious come to drop messages to the Hidden Imam into a holy well.

All streams of Islam believe in a divine saviour, known as the Mahdi, who will appear at the End of Days. A common rumour - denied by the government but widely believed - is that Mr Ahmadinejad and his cabinet have signed a "contract" pledging themselves to work for the return of the Mahdi and sent it to Jamkaran.

Iran's dominant "Twelver" sect believes this will be Mohammed ibn Hasan, regarded as the 12th Imam, or righteous descendant of the Prophet Mohammad.

He is said to have gone into "occlusion" in the ninth century, at the age of five. His return will be preceded by cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed. After a cataclysmic confrontation with evil and darkness, the Mahdi will lead the world to an era of universal peace.

This is similar to the Christian vision of the Apocalypse. Indeed, the Hidden Imam is expected to return in the company of Jesus.

Mr Ahmadinejad appears to believe that these events are close at hand and that ordinary mortals can influence the divine timetable.

The prospect of such a man obtaining nuclear weapons is worrying. The unspoken question is this: is Mr Ahmadinejad now tempting a clash with the West because he feels safe in the belief of the imminent return of the Hidden Imam? Worse, might he be trying to provoke chaos in the hope of hastening his reappearance?

The 49-year-old Mr Ahmadinejad, a former top engineering student, member of the Revolutionary Guards and mayor of Teheran, overturned Iranian politics after unexpectedly winning last June's presidential elections.

The main rift is no longer between "reformists" and "hardliners", but between the clerical establishment and Mr Ahmadinejad's brand of revolutionary populism and superstition.

Its most remarkable manifestation came with Mr Ahmadinejad's international debut, his speech to the United Nations.

World leaders had expected a conciliatory proposal to defuse the nuclear crisis after Teheran had restarted another part of its nuclear programme in August.

Instead, they heard the president speak in apocalyptic terms of Iran struggling against an evil West that sought to promote "state terrorism", impose "the logic of the dark ages" and divide the world into "light and dark countries".

The speech ended with the messianic appeal to God to "hasten the emergence of your last repository, the Promised One, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace".

In a video distributed by an Iranian web site in November, Mr Ahmadinejad described how one of his Iranian colleagues had claimed to have seen a glow of light around the president as he began his speech to the UN.

"I felt it myself too," Mr Ahmadinejad recounts. "I felt that all of a sudden the atmosphere changed there. And for 27-28 minutes all the leaders did not blink…It's not an exaggeration, because I was looking.

"They were astonished, as if a hand held them there and made them sit. It had opened their eyes and ears for the message of the Islamic Republic."

Western officials said the real reason for any open-eyed stares from delegates was that "they couldn't believe what they were hearing from Ahmadinejad".

Their sneaking suspicion is that Iran's president actually relishes a clash with the West in the conviction that it would rekindle the spirit of the Islamic revolution and - who knows - speed up the arrival of the Hidden Imam.
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/14/wiran14.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/14/ixworld.html
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2006, 12:15:24 AM »

Quote
"...A new report by the staff of the House of Representatives intelligence committee suggested that the administration was ill-equipped to drive a hard bargain. It found "significant gaps in our knowledge and understanding of the various areas of concern about Iran" and said "policymakers will need high-quality intelligence to assess Iranian intentions to prepare for any new round of negotiations".

Iran, by contrast, is widely considered to be in a strong negotiating position. Analysis published yesterday by the Royal Institute of International Affairs at Chatham House said there was "little doubt that Iran has been the chief beneficiary of the war on terror in the Middle East".

The report said Iran had gained from the defeat of two of its most immediate regional rivals, Saddam Hussein in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan...
 'Significant gaps' in American intelligence on Iran[/b] Guardian UK article here.

There's a bunch more that came out along the same lines.

A couple of pretty big points from that quote to mull over.

Don't get me wrong Mono, I don't see why a country like Iran needs to have a nuclear program of any kind.  It's not only unnecessary but also their record of behaviour doesn't exactly instill trust in this westerner and it would be very dangerous.

But with it coming to light that there are gaps in U.S. intelligence on Iran and that there are some allegations about policy makers using a little colour to fill in those gaps + the U.S. is facing larger issues with Iran now that we have eliminated Iran's two arch rivals via the war on terror.

The best description of Alakazam there that I have heard after a former ambassador had several first hand meetings with him is that while being an ignorant fellow he's incredibly wiley and possess suprisingly (because he comes off as so ignorant) great political smarts.
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2006, 12:17:51 AM »

yeah...
Ahmadinejad lost the plot a while ago, didn't he?
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MONOLITH
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2006, 04:14:27 AM »

Quote from: DaSmerg
but also their record of behaviour doesn't exactly instill trust in this westerner and it would be very dangerous.




Yes. That was my point.

Aside from it's probably even more dangerous than is realized.

And since you just said it would be dangerous for an unhinged country like Iran to have nukes, than I dare say you actually do agree that America does and should have the right to say "no nukes for you", for the safety of you and I; and every other infidel in the world.

Just because we used nukes once TO END A GLOBAL WAR AND SAVE LIVES; is not an excuse to completely ignore that we are in fact the good guys, not the loons running around yelling for jihads and beheadings.

Quote from: DaSmerg
with Iran now that we have eliminated Iran's two arch rivals via the war on terror.


All the more reason to keep a lid on them, since their neighbors cannot. And "gaps in US intelligence" does not mean there's nothing there to be concerned about. When someone is actively hiding something, you're lucky to find out anything at all, let alone 'have gaps'. Of course there's gaps. There's gaps in your knowledge of your wife's daily activities, and you live with her. But where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's clearly no gap in knowing that a man who tells the world he wants to incinerate Isreal and is seeking nuclear technology is a serious problem.
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2006, 05:26:22 PM »

I'll easily say taat the U.S. should not have a lead role in negotiations with Iran.  That's not equitable in my esitmation to that Iran's nuclear program, whatever it may be, should not be seriously and officially supervised or even just plain old stopped.

The gaps in intelligence that I saw are pretty troubling as it seems it has been exagerrated how advanced the Iranian program is.  From what I've understood, given time (as in two decades or greater), the iranians could have a nuclear program that could bring about weapons grade material.

Again, totally in agreement it seems on the fact that a historically unstable nation (unstable in the sense that multiple factions control various aspects of Iran with a scenario of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing, never mind the what the feet are up to) is definately not the best place for nuclear weapons level technology to fall into.  Factor in the fact that the people of this region have pretty clearly demonstrated over the last 3 decades that they have not only no fear of death but also mass murder.

My issue right now is that I just don't see any credibility left with this current U.S. government.  Too much bs for too long, what's going on currently in Iran included.  Maybe after the elections this fall (if we see a decent re-shuffling of the deck) and most definately after 2008, even if the GOP win the top spot again.  This old school approach to running government, (bs, bs and only tell your version of the truth when forced to) has alienated me.
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MONOLITH
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2006, 10:40:11 PM »

But all of these other nations that voted for sanctions against Iran over it's nuke program, surely are not relying only on US intelligence, correct?

When Paul martin said "shut them down", it wasn't based only on the US's fears and allegations, was it?

Somebody else apparantly can see what we see as well.
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2006, 12:31:36 AM »

France isn't for sanctions, we just heard not too long ago from Chirac on this topic.  The Ruskies aren't for sanctions, they are the ones making a lot of money off of the Iranians atm.  China isn't for sanctions, they are looking to continue to leverage as much influence for the future.

Am I for sanctions?  I don't know anymore.  A few months ago I thought they were the best course of action.  Now, I'm not too sure.  Chiefly because I don't know how truly effective they would be.

No where have you seen me dismiss a nuclear armed Iran as trivial or not important.  I do honestly think it is a serious problem.

But you are going to have to admit Mono that it appears that the Iranian nuclear program has been just a tad overblown.  Best guess estimates I've seen is at bare minimum a decade, probably more like two decades before they have the technology for a weapons program.  Does this mean I think we should wait?  Most definately not.

I don't know exactly what the solution here is going to be.  Alakazam is just the figure head of one of the factions in Iran pushing this nuclear agenda on their end.  From what I've seen, most Iranians seem more concerened with everyday economic life than the nuclear issue.  Maybe there is someplace to start?  The current Iranian government also doesn't seem to have any sort of cohesive demands.  Maybe just keep the pressure up, work within the country to wait for a change of government and work with someone hopefully more stable in the next few years?

It's definately a big mess now that's for sure that's going to be complicated to sort out.
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MONOLITH
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2006, 02:16:38 AM »

Russia and China we already know have relationships with Iran, so they're a moot point.

France is, well, still the same France that wanted to give the Third Reich a chance as well. Until Hitler came and took the country.

Since the United Nations did pass a resolution ordering Iran to stop it's uranium enrichment, obviously any country you name that is opposed to sanctions is moot point.


I do agree that sanctions don't work. They never have, on any country. I also agree that working from the inside and trying to wait out a change of government in Iran would be the best scenario.

Or would it? Have we ever really had a western friendly government of Iran? Wasn't it a different government that took American Hostages already before?


Just so we don't go off on the wrong tangent, don't lose sight of the fact that nowhere in this thread have I said anyone  should take military action. So comments of 'this sounds like Iraq', and fingerpointing at supposedly lousy US intel doesn't exactly apply. What I did  say was that we should all take notice, that a religious fanatic who is working on Nukes has told the world he will burn Isreal off the map, and he prayed in front of the UN assembly for the hastening of the 12th Imam, which requires the apocolypse to occur.

What the F*ck is wrong with the world, that we can accept a world leader stepping up before the entire world audience, and praying for our demise, at something as formal as the UN assembly?

And what the F*ck is wrong with the people that can simply shrug this off, preferring to look at things like 'questionable Intel', instead of what's staring them right in the face.

Can you imagine what would happen if an American politician (take your pick) got up in front of the UN, and prayed  for all Muslims to spontaneously combust so Jesus could return and create one monotheic Christian Empire?

Oh Well.

Lot's of Polish and French though they had plenty of time to negotiate with Hitler too.

Anywho, I'm off to play some Oblivion.  :yup:
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Da Fish
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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2006, 01:13:22 PM »

Quote from: MONOLITH


Anywho, I'm off to play some Oblivion.  :yup:


I think thats what Mr Adheminhadifrietyblahblah wants to do, just his version involves making the world glow in the dark!


Oh and for the record, the polish thought they where gonna get some help from the russians, who in turn just sat there as the germans roled in.
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