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Author Topic: The Not-so-ultimate Gaming Rig Challenge  (Read 1045 times)
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Zazoo
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« on: September 04, 2007, 11:38:06 PM »

I didn't want to hi-jack any of the other threads out there, and 77th-peppas is done with his rig, so I'll start this one...

I'm looking to put together the best gaming rig I can for less than 1000$, similar to 77th-peppa. However, there are some things I don't need and others I really don't care much about. It's been a long time since I've fiddled with hardware and I don't know a whole lot about the newest graphics cards and processors available.

I want to put most of the money on:
* CPU/Motherboard
* Graphics Card (I'm thinking the top of the line or close to it depending on price differences).

The other things I need to get that should be decent, but don't have to be absolutely top quality/price are:
* RAM (need suggestions on amount of RAM, and brand/type)
* PSU (nothing overkill, but more than enough to handle the system)
* HDD (Decent but not top-of-the-line -- I guess. I'm not totally sure the impact of the HDD on the gaming itself. If it's just a matter of access/load times I don't mind slower speeds/times if it means a considerable savings of cash. BUT if it impacts the actual in-game performance (while playing, not while loading levels and such), then I'll spend some extra cash)

Things I really don't care much about:
* I'll need a new case, but I really don't care what it looks like. Butt-ugly is fine, it just needs to be funtional and cheap!
* A decent sound card under 50$ (Right now I hook my system up through a stereo using the cheap-ass onboard soundcard on my MoBo... and I think it sounds great. So I don't really care much about this one).

Monitor, keyboard, mouse, media-drives, OS, etc. I already have.

Thanks for any help you can offer!
~Mike
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DaSmerg
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 12:22:09 AM »

Yay for Mike sinking some bucks into a new rig.  Tis about time.

Now then, for your budget versus shopping list versus ideas after...you deserve honesty up front...they really don't match up.  One of the top of the line vid cars will run you more than $700 before shipping or an applicable taxes.

Is the 1K budget for real Mike or is there any wiggle room in there?

What does your dream rig look like?  Anything like quad-core processing, sli-vid cards, crossfire vid cards, DX10 or 64 bit operating system get you hot under the collar?

How long of a life span are you expecting out this rig?

We've gotten a glimpse at some of the stuff you're into...you say "gaming rig" but would a multi-functional rig be closer to the mark?

Look forward to your answers and trying to generate a parts list for ya!
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2007, 01:01:13 AM »

Any particular brand loyalty/loyalities at all?

What kind of HDD storage you thinking about?  Would terrabyte HDD storage be something that twinges an interest considering all those pretty photo's you keep posting up for us?
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Zazoo
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2007, 03:02:18 AM »

Ok... I am not willing to pay 700$ for a graphics card. I'm actually not really looking to pay much over 350$. At one time that was enough for a pretty good card. Apparently the price tag for "top of the line" graphics cards has climbed quite a bit since the last time I was in the market for a card. Tongue

The 1000$ or less limit is fairly firm. Ideally l'd like to be sub-1000$.

Maybe this will help more...
For 1000$ or less I'd like to build a PC that can play any game available right now, and any game that will come out over the next year or two without upgrading anything.
And by "play" I mean at a decent frame rate. I don't expect maximum specs playability, just smooth play in the mid to mid-high spec range.
I'm planning on sticking with my 1400x900 native res LCD for some time, so no big demands on the resolution. Nor do I care if I can have AA on. I'm used to having it off.

HDD space can be 300 GB range. I've been using 120 GB for a few years now and although it's tight it's 300 GB would be plenty.

I put my photos on DVD and a spare HD on another PC (100GB) I've still got some ways to go before I fill it. Cheesy

I have no brand loyalties. As long as it's decent hardware from a reputable company I'm happy.

That's really all I want. Since I already have the monitor, and I'm willing to cut cost on the case and sound card, I figured that 1000$ or less could get me that. Maybe not! Sad

Thanks!
~Mike
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2007, 04:15:19 PM »

Quote from: Zazoo
The 1000$ or less limit is fairly firm. Ideally l'd like to be sub-1000$.

Maybe this will help more...
For 1000$ or less I'd like to build a PC that can play any game available right now, and any game that will come out over the next year or two without upgrading anything.
And by "play" I mean at a decent frame rate. I don't expect maximum specs playability, just smooth play in the mid to mid-high spec range.


Wink
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Zazoo
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2007, 04:41:34 PM »

LOL, I should add:
I want a PC, not a console.

Cheesy
~Mike
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2007, 08:50:21 PM »

But you can get both for under a $1000.  I finally went to the darkside (console gaming) in Jan 2007 after being avid PC gamer since 1995.   A year ago I would have flamed myself for saying this, but I honestly enjoy the console gaming more now because I buy a game and it works.  I don' t have to spend time and $$ on updating hardware and looking for drivers to make the lastest game work.

Something to think about anyway because you can get your XBOX 360 and then get your lower end PC (or keep the one you have now) to run email, browsing, and office application.
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2007, 09:43:30 PM »

Ok Mike...

OVERVIEW:  With a foundation of a new DFI mainboard, featuring a 2.6Ghz AMD dual core, 2 GB's of DDR2 800mhz, over 400gb's of storage, RAID 0 array, DVD burner, EVGA vid card, DX10 ready, Window's Vista and all housed in a gorgous cold rolled balck steel case.

COST:  Total cost if purchased from Newegg.com, including economy shipping to western Maine, $1,120.04 with $15 in mail-in rebates coming back to you...some assembly required Tongue.  You'll have to combo up a few parts to get some of the costs.

SPECIFICS:

ASUS 18X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe (black)

Antec Performance One P180B Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

2x's Seagate Barracuda 250GB SATA2 HDD

DFI INFINITY NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard

EVGA GeForce 8600GTS

Antec True Power Trio 650W Power Supply

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ 2.6GHz AM2 Processor

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800 Dual Channel Kit

Windows Vista Home Premium x64

ONLY ADDERS:  Eventually hook up an addtional 8600GTS for some SLI action.  Power supply should more than be able to handle it.  Maybe go up to 4 gb's of RAM but not totally necessary.

I'm running Vista home premium x64.  Have for several months now.  I haven't experienced any issues other than very small annoyances...Outlook from office XP won't remember any email passwords for example.  I'd reccomend Vista based on my expereinces, plus, now we are starting to see the first wave of DX10 games roll out...and man are they purty.  Also a little futureproofing with a 64 bit OS.

I know you wanted to try and keep it below a grand, could still do that but at the expense of performance by going with a lesser processor...or some HDD storage...or by dropping vista and going with whatever OS you are using right now.

Anyways...have a look and happy shopping!
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2007, 01:36:34 AM »

I have nothing against consoles, I just don't have enough motivation to get one of my own.
I'm a control freak. I CANNOT STAND fps gaming with a controller. I NEED a keyboard and mouse and the ability to fully customize the key setup.  
Also I haven't seen a whole lot of console RTS games (and again, I could not play RTS with a controler anyway).

~Mike
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Zazoo
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2007, 01:54:57 AM »

Smerg

Looks good.
I have a student purchase option for Vista so I can get that same version for under 100$.
I'd probably drop the second hard drive though. 250GB plus my current 120GB is more than enough for me. Or is there a reason for the dual HDD setup you suggested?
I'd also like to come down a bit on the case. I'm thinking under 100$.

Also, what's the next highest model after the GeForce you recommended? Is the performance worth the price difference?

Thanks!
~Mike
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2007, 03:16:18 AM »

Kewl on saving $$ on an OS...take it where you can get it IMHO.

The thing about that case that I put up there...not only does it look kewl, but in a combo it's cost is reduced to 129...and it's ready to go...it has more than ample cooling.  

Another thing to consider is this as an investment...the whole system that is.  The  case I put up there for example can very well last you through another build down the road.  If that doesn't twinge an interest with you, substitute a lesser expensive one...just make sure that you have at least 1 decent intake and outflow fan included (120mm on either side) or you'll be buying them later.

I put up 2 HDD's so you can run good olde RAID 0 array.  Gets you a little more umph in overall performance.  By all means, feel free to dump it if you wish, this is a budget range rig after all and the price for 1 is pretty silly low + you have another HDD already to chuck in there (is it a SATA drive btw?).

The next level up for vid card is an Nvidia 8800 GTS of your brand choice.   The 8600gts is a solid card aimed at the budget enthusiast but you could step up to the 8800GTS if you wanted.  There are 2 flavours to choose from...the 320mb version and the 640mb version.  You've been around long enough to know, this year's darling is next year's cheapy, replaced by the new darling. I'm running the EVGA 8800GTS 640mb and it's fanstastic.  BUT...like I was saying...you should expect the 8600GTS to come down in noticable cost sooner than the upper end 8800 cards and you could buy another and SLI them together for a very noticable performance gain.  The same can be said for the 8800's but they are at the top of the food chain for now and my 8800GTS I bought in February has held it's price point.  Nvidia has such a commanding performance lead right now on it's upper end cards there has been no pressure to lower their top end cards.  There has been downward pressure on the mid-range market though.

Something else to remember about Nvidia vid cards and SLI...they now support mixed vendors...meaning you can buy the same card from different manufacturers and still run them in SLI.  Awfully handy if you see the same card by a different manufacturer come down in price for whatever reason.  I mention this because there are pretty big performance gains from having 2 vid cards combined...it isn't just a marketing ploy.

Anyways...hope this all helps.
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DaSmerg
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2007, 06:31:32 AM »

Mike...sent ya an email via the boards on same topic.

Dunno if you'll get it or not tho.
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Zazoo
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2007, 06:48:37 PM »

Hey Smerg, I got your e-mail.

Ok, been doing some looking/reading and I have a few questions:

I'm thinking I might introduce a bit of wiggle room for the price... Cheesy:D

Also, I think I'm definitely going with the EVGA 680i board you recommended in your email.

First... Which would be the better way to go with the GFX cards...
Two of these cards: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130086
...or one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130071
?

Also, If I go with the intel board what processor do you recommend. I'm thinking about 2x for quad core if the price is reasonable.

Finally, assuming I go quadcore with 2 GFX cards, what would you recommend for a PSU?

Thanks again!
~Mike
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2007, 10:14:19 PM »

I'd go with the 8800GTS.

Here's the poop on quad core and dual core...dual cores are just plain faster atm.  Why?  Because we're just starting to reach a point in time where dual core technology is being utilized, so you end up with a quad core that has 2 cores (or in some cases even 3 cores) sitting there unutilized.

But we have some stuff slowly rolling out that will utlize as many cores as you have.  Supreme Commander does this, the new Unreal will, a couple of others in the pipe for next year.

So the short...if you want to save a few bucks and still have a great performing system...go dual core.  I reccomend the E6600...best bang for the buck (I'll walk ya through OC'ing it...it's simple as pie and I'm running mine @ 3.38ghz with no overvolting).  

If you want a futureproof rig...spend a little more and go qued core.  Just remember that not a bunch utilizes it right now.  The Q6600 is on special everywhere I think
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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2007, 01:42:32 PM »

anything more than dual core isnt being coded for, or at least its in development stages.  basically its just cores that are being wasted because software isnt using them atm. dual core is damn healthy for multi-tasking and some applications have already started coding and have released code for it. i havent seen much in the quad core list, but i would assume that encoders/decoders for video are likly to be the first to reveal app's with the support for those cores.

SLI or dual grfx cards to me seems like a waste of money.  before you know it the money you spent on the additional card is likly going to be out dated because now you need new directx standards for the up and comming years, not to mention new shader models and the what not.  so you spent the money you could have spent on a future upgrade, or you could spend slightly more on a faster single card that might even outpace an SLI setup in the majority of tests because SLI drivers dont work for every game - (tho the games it does work for its usually great, mosltly if you want to run large resolutions with alot of AA, and AF etc.

the games i see out are not really benifiting much with the multi-core technology on the cpu front - of course you have suprem-comm, and unreal, but they dont take the advantage they could take because the lack of knowledge in the multicore area - plus it takes time, money and knowhow to impliment such a technology in code, and it will still take years to come to  make it right.

just make sure you get a board proven to be able to go quadcore so you can upgrade later (when they changed the socket and the only thing you can get is the quadcore just a few megaherts higher :p )

raid setup will only gain you mabe 10mb/s in some situations and that depends on file size chunks etc.  especialy if its onboard raid. most tests show it will not always benifit and in some area's it will decrease speeds. with dual and quad core technologys in the near future new onboard raid controlers will utilize more of the unused portion of the cpu since it will have multiple cores and the onboard raid usually takes up alot of the cpu time, its not made currently where it will utilize much of the open space on the cpu.

AMD's quad core is a real quad core cpu and is suppose to be better than the intel solution in some situations, ie power and floating point operations, so you will run a more efficent cpu (at floating point operations) at a lower power consumption than the intel, this was proven at the last convention that happend i forget the name.

that doesnt mean the amd chip is better, they are late in the game and going slow, amd's goal is long term, and its not close to that term until 2010 i belive. 2k8 and 2k9 will show some really nice technologys from amd tho... but the current situation intel is clearly the better choice.
chances are everyone is going to change the socket and chipset designs soon so everyone is going to have to upgrade anyways, so buy now, your not really going to be future proof, but i see newer system's are going to last at least 1 to 2 years, after that its going to leap.

here is a quad crossfire setup from amd soon to release.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=42212
pics here: http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=420400#post420400
that means buy one card and upgrade later and add more as you go... limitless potential, since amd/ati has the advantage in physics, that add's a nice touch (tho the 2000 line of ati cards isnt that great atm).


here is the quakewars specs for systems http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=42211
looks like they are still developing for older technologys, and thats a good thing for me Tongue

here is more info on some new ati/nvida products http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=42199
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