I have never finished graw.... even on normal.

I played through GRAW on the PC.  It WAS hard (even on easy).  I don't know what it's like on the XBox 360.  I have it on XBox but I've never been able to get through the first level because I suck with a game controller.

GRAW was not easy mainly because the friendly AI is SO lame.  I agree about the tanks.  They are just STOOPID.  Why you have to give them orders to defend themselves is beyond me.  A tank rolls up starts firing its main gun at the tank and they just sit there and die.  Whoever designed this scenario needs professional help.  The APCs at least will fire their cannon without you telling them to.

As for the tangos being nearly invisible without the diamonds, they are definitely that way on the PC because it's nearly monochrome.  They just blend into the background.  Half the time I can't see them at all unless they move (I guess I'm like a T-Rex... :roll: ).  On the XBox, I can't see them because my vision isn't good enough and I'm playing on an analog (low res) 24 inch TV about 10 feet away.

On the PC, though, the target diamonds don't show up unless your team (or the RPV) spots them.  I quite often am way out ahead of my team doing recon.  So I don't get the targeting diamonds.  I just move _very_ slowly which can make the game very boring but not nearly as bad as dieing all the time.  I also listen.  Believe it or not, you can hear the tangos when they try to move up on you or flank you.  I've shot more than one before he shot me because I heard him coming.

I'm thinking that maybe that game controller is holding you back, Mono.  I don't think you'd have as much trouble with a keyboard and mouse.  I'm pretty sure I'd never get through Vegas on a console.

I _still_ don't understand why Microsoft doesn't make it possible to use those on the 360.  I believe a tremendous number of people would use them.  Even if you had to buy them specifically for the 360 (I'd buy them, I think).  I'm also pretty sure that would motivate me to buy a 360 as well as games for it.  I think they're being penny-wise and pound foolish.

I reloaded Vegas and got back to the same place that I got stuck before.  And I beat that scenario the first time.

The thing is that even in places where I'd been before and had no problems, I would get killed (sometimes more than once) at the same place.  And I didn't get  killed in that area the first time.

The part in the caves where you start the shotgun battle is NOT easy.  But oddly enough I made it through that the first time with maybe three restarts and I would get killed in different places.  The second time through, I had to restart probably 20 times (from the point where you only have a pistol).  I think maybe I was more cautious the first time around.  Run 'n gun on Vegas will get you killed QUICKLY.

Which part of the first level are you having problems with?  Maybe we can suggest a different strategy.  One thing to remember.  Know when to retreat, let your health build back up and then go at them again, possibly from a different angle if possible.  They'll still be watching where you were last.  And be aware that they _will_ flank you if they can.  For some reason they do not seem aggressive enough to advance on your position after you pull back.

Remember to use your smokes. And go silent when you use your smokes.  They won't know where to shoot.

I spent more than half the game with a suppressor on my weapon. (I really like the G3KA4).  Going loud might be more fun.  But it lets the tangos zero in on your position and concentrate their fire.  In some places I play more like Sam Fisher.  I get by on stealth and trickery as much as possible.    

Watch for the replenishment chests.  They hold 10 refills on your ammo, grenades and even different guns if you need them.   With 10 refills, you can have up to 30 frags for some areas.

And don't forget your team.  These guys are MUCH smarter than the team in GRAW.  The black guy (Michael) can be pretty funny sometimes.  He's also a much better shot than Jung.

I managed to finish Vegas tonight (well, this morning).  I think the ending sucks.

There were some places that I got _extremely_ frustrated with both GRAW and Vegas.  In some places, in both games, the only way you're going to get through it is by getting a little further each time until you know the layout and where the enemy is (or, at least, how many there are -- they're not always in the same place).  Then you can devise a strategy to deal with them.

Hopefully, on the 360, you won't have any problems with screwed up save games that won't let you complete certain sections of the game.  I ran into that twice.  The first time was bad enough.  The second time, I felt homicidal.

You can get through it Mono.  It may just take a different approach in some places.

I _still_ hate those "defend against the counter attack" scenarios.  Can't they be any more imaginative than to just throw a flood of tangos at you?  Were they hiding in the walls just waiting for you to start working on whatever the "trap" is?

By the way, is the shotgun as overpowered on the 360 in Vegas as it is on the PC?

Hang in there, Monolith.  If _I_ can beat Vegas, anybody can.

*next morning*

Well, #1, when you see that many Friggins and F*cks in my post, that's how you know I have about 12 beers in me and the 'roid rage is building up. That's how my friends know to get me out of the bar before people start dropping.

#2 I'm glad some people I respect had the same feelings I did. At least now I know it isn't just me.

Definately agree about playing too long. The only problem is, everytime you shut the game off and come back later to the same level, your patience with that level gets shorter.

I'm okay with the console controllers. 50/50 anyway. I like them in that I can intuitively hit buttons without thought, unlike the keyboard where I have to actually look down and find the right key to change weapons or hit the night vision. So things move more fluidly with the console controller.

What I don't like about the controller, is some games, like GRAW, do not allow you to adjust the X Y axis speeds, and it seems painfully slow to scan the gun sight from left to right. If there's two tangos on the screen, side by side, I can shoot one, then get shot by the other during the 5 seconds that go by while I'm swinging the sight over.

Agreed about the defend scenarios. In GRAW, right after the American Embassy blows up and then you rush in and defend VIP 2 against endless assaulting rebels, I probably spent most of the afternoon trying to get through that one. From an old IGOR scripters view, I actually liked it; had a great feel to it, the overwhelming odds, the desperation of a few good soldiers, even the sad "hope is lost" music was perfect. It reminded me of that original "Riot in Belgrade" GR1 mod where the guy put us on the roof of the embassy and played music from 'Gladiator'. It's an awesome moment.

BUT, it should be fun. We're supposed to be relaxing and enjoying ourselves. When they make it so hard that you're just frustrated and pissed off, I think the game devs have done the fans a complete disservice. Okay, so winning all the time isn't realistic, but this isn't real life; it's a fantasy designed to entertain and make us feel good. That's what game devs are completely missing these days. When I was doing GR1 scripts, I would toss in temporary invulnerability for the player at just the right times, so he could enjoy a vicious firefight and come away a hero, not a frustrated gamer.

GRAW, I don't have so much trouble finding the tangos without the markers. I'm on the high def widescreen monitor, and I can find them fine. It was funny how when I got fed up with an area and turned them on just to get through it, all of a sudden I could see right through walls a football field away. I'm shooting guys out of trees, and I can't even see the tree yet. Just silly.

And GRAW isn't as hard as Vegas. Like Aramis said, GRAW isn't all that hard, just has the stupid tanks issue. But Vegas. Christ.  I hear you about the tunnel shotgun thing Ronin. Took me forever to get throught there. It's almost enough to make me quit First person shooters again. And right now, I'm totally stuck on the second level, outside the hotel trying to get through that stupid parking lot full of 500 tangos with 'smart bullets'.

I can't wait to get inside and start doing breaches and room clearings with the cool AI, but I don't think I'll ever get there. The mechanics and gameplay of Vegas are so cool, but it's so damn hard, I'm literally almost not wanting to turn it on again. I'm dreading the frustration.

Alright, that's enough of a Sunday morning rant. I have to go get some gatorade, the absolute best thing for the morning after beers.

So check out what else I just found.

I turned it on this morning (GRAW) and found I was just starting the Shantytown mission. They put you behind an APC, and there's instantly 6 or 8 rebels and an armored vehicle in front of you. The APC seems to target armor on it's own, took out the vehicle, no problem. But humans.... the gunner on the APC is blazing away with the 50 Cal, and nothing. The tangos are completely immune. It's total eye candy. You have to kill them yourself. I actually whittled them down to 2 guys. Then I just watched from behind the APC. Two tangos atraight ahead of the APC, red triangles and everything, and the APC is blazing away with the machine gun, and oddly enough firing it's cannon at them, and NOTHING.

The only time the APC can actually kill a tango, is if you hit the map, select the target, and direct the APC to kill that particular tango.

That is pure BS.




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Nothing frustrates me more than playing for a while but having to shut down without making it at least to the next checkpoint. :sad: This is why I don't even switch GRAW on unless I have a good chunk of time to play. Of course, it still happens regardless. :hmm:

Definately something I miss everytime I play 360.

ROFLMAO!!!



A few of tips about that.

1. When the enemy advances and tries to flank you, pull back to a position where they have to advance through a choke point.

2. If possible, have your team taking cover from another side of the same object you're covering behind.  This will make it harder for them to flank you.

3. Don't forget about setting up cross fires.

4. Also, remember that you can shoot _under_ cars...

5. This is an area where suppressed weapons will let you move around and tag them one at a time.  They always look in the direction they hear sounds or one of their mates got shot last time.  Moving slowly and firing suppressed keeps them looking in the wrong direction allowing you to turn them off one by one.

6. Use your team to draw their fire while _you_ flank _them_.

7. Use your team on "infiltrate" so they help you spot the tangos then move in for the kill.  The tangos they spot show up on the mini-map in red.



There are some pretty tough scenarios once you get inside.  The casinos are so cluttered with stuff you can't see through or over that it's pretty hard to figure out where the tangos are.  I used the cover/peek a lot in the casinos.

The tangos like using flashbangs.  That's why it's important to have a good avenue of retreat.  They also start using incendiaries and even frags as the game progresses.

Watch out for the "tripline" assaults.  You get to a certain position and suddenly several tangos (some will rappel in from above) will burst in to where you are.  Be ready to move to cover OR be ready to retreat under fire whenever you move.  (like you didn't already know that... )

Like BJB mentioned (although it was in GRAW, I think) try to move from cover to cover.  If you don't have cover where you're going, you won't stay alive long.

I really do recommend using the suppressor.  I found most scenarios easier with the suppressed weapons just because the tangos don't know where you are unless they see your muzzle flash.

And there's nothing wrong with popping them one at a time then melting away to another vantage point.  In some places, that's the only way I could get through after trying a frontal assault a couple of times.

Be forewarned about the bell tower at Dante's Casino.  I _hated_ that because you _have_ to use the heat vision.  Your own eyes and night vision just won't do.  You also have to advance into a cross-fire at one point. There's no way around that.  Be cognizant of the layout of each level.  The AI is very good at flanking maneuvers.

Something I learned about the AI.  They will rarely advance through a door on your position unless they are placed where they are to ambush you from the rear.  I try to creep around and take the singletons out with suppressed weapons.  They can't ambush you if they're dead.  I kept getting killed on one room clearing until I figured out I had bypassed a tango behind me who was  shooting me in the back.

I'm amazed at how badly the night vision in Vegas works.  It completely overamps light areas without seeming to amplify the dark areas at all.  Basically it lightens the entire view a little, turns it monochrome green, and turns up the contrast.  I never use it.

Is there a tank in the last part of that mission?  There is on the PC but I'm told that all the maps for the PC are different from the console version.  I know the first map on the PC and the first console map are different (the only one I've seen on my XBox).

OK. So here I am again, 24 hous later. 12:10 pm EST.

I pop in GRAW, and I'm at the level where you're running around the rooftops alone sniping snipers and leading 3 tanks somewhere.

It's freakin ridiculous. First of all, what am I doing alone, when I'm playing a tactical based squad shooter?

2nd, it doesn't matter how many times I start the beginning of the mission with full green health, and I snipe half a dozen tangos, eventually some sneakily placed tango with ESP (cause he knows right where I am and when I get there) nails me once or twice and that's it...restart mission....24 times.

I can't get 100 yards.

The only way I can get anywhere?  Shoot guys through 2 24" solid concrete walls, because somehow their bodies magically outline in neon red thru the wall, AND, I can shoot right thru the two walls and kill them.

I want so bad to like and play these games, but UBI has made them so friggin hard and frustrating, It's just about enough to make me quit gaming. I don't have the time for this bullsh*t, and I definately don't need this level of aggravation from something I'm supposed to be enjoying.

And if I pick a slow easy strategy game like M2:TW, the AI is so buggy, that's a complete waste of time as well. I've seriously just about had it with this self torture.




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Hate to say it, but the solo missions were my favorite. I didn't have to worry about the crappy friendly AI getting themselves shot somewhere, and it added to the tension for me as I had no backup.

What bugged me more was when I was being jammed, and I couldn't just turn OFF the stupid HUD. I mean, if it's so staticy and fuzzy that I can see better without it, why can't I just shut it down? I thought that was dumb.




I dunno, I had to do this level like... twice. I didn't find it very difficult. The whole thing takes place on the rooftops, so keep your vision focussed up there. There's a couple long-range snipers that can kill you with one shot, but as long as you always stay low and move to cover they normally won't get the chance to pop off a good one. (You are staying crouched, right?)

Again, I'm not a very good player, so my only thought is that you're looking for the game to do something it's not. Try and figure out where they're taking you out and adjust accordingly- the game puts them in the exact same spot every time.

Also, just to warn you, there's another major "you're on your own" section left in the game. Personally, it was my favorite, but again, I liked those sections.

If it's not fun, then just don't play it. You'll be more happy. Same with me and that Lost Planet game- sometimes games you look forward to just aren't what you wanted.



That comment is gonna piss someone off. :hmm:

I think that the game isn't made for fast reflexes, because honestly, the controller isn't all that fast. I don't know that the 360 game is all that different from the pc as I haven't played the pc version, but in my mind if anything they probably just made it a little easier and a little more run n' gun, as that's what they typically do. Maybe Wolfsong can add some more insight on that.