Futureweapons

[Aramis]

I finally got to catch an episode of Futureweapons on Discovery. Anyone watch this show yet? It's friggin awesome. The host is a bit over the top with trying to sound dramatic, but he knows his weapons and ammo.

They were showing a bit about Dragon Armor when I came in- personal body armor that looks like the same stuff our troops are currently wearing. It had steel plates and a kevlar weave that was kind of reptilian in a way. It stopped 9mm, 5.56, and 7.62 ammo fired at very short range. It even managed to keep a shrapnel grenade from penetrating when they set the dummy on one and blew it up. :1 (12):

Overall it's a really interesting show that I figured folks around here would love. Plus, they sponsored the new maps for Gears of War on the 360 for free.

*edit* Ok, this is badass. They ahve this already super-cool grenade launcher called the 6-pack- it's basically a cylinder-loaded grenade launcher on what looks like an M4 frame. What's cool is that they have a smart grenade that is equipped with a friggin camera and a parachute, allowing you a real-time bird's eye view of the area. It's like an early version of the UAV. They have another grenade that fires an IR flare that lights up the night perfectly for Nightvision goggles without exposing your position to those that aren't as well-equipped.

They also had a new idea to take out IED's using a briefcase with a "shaped charge" that uses a water jet (more of a water blade) to penetrate the vehicle from underneath and disconnect the bomb as well as diffuse any flames without it going off.

[deadsanchez]

good show, worth watching. I thought that nade launcher was overkill. ofcourse that's the point.

[Dr.Jeckyl]

the recoilless .50 was badass to boot. very cool show, and i think the host adds to the nuance of the show.

edit: recoilless SEMI automatic .50.  

[Ronin]

I've watched this show a few times.  The host is over the top a bit.  He was a Seal.

I like the one where they talk about the gun with the camera built in that lets you look and fire around corners (no it's not the old bent barrel joke... ).

He does rave on about some things.  He just loves the Apache.  I think they should have commentators/hosts from the various branches of the services.  A pilot should be commenting on aircraft, a hard deck Navy guy on the watercraft and a ground pounder for the other stuff (like they already have).  It would add more credibility to the reporting, I think.

I mean the Seal isn't really going to know much about why the F22 Raptor is such a great aircraft.  I don't think he can really appreciate what a near miracle it is that the F22 can go transonic on dry power.  Or what its thrust vectoring means to a fighter pilot.

There was one segment about the Apache where they are doing practice runs with 2.75" rockets (I think) on an old tank hulk.  And he's going on about how that tank is just _dead_.  From the video, none of the rockets actually hit the tank (most were at least 10 feet away).  Just about any tank from WWII on could have withstood what we were seeing with the crew intact.  The show (and the host) just lost a bit of credibility with that.  I'm sure it was a civilian behind the camera who made decision to show that with that dialog.  But it took a lot away from what I was seeing.

Still and all, I like the show and I hope they make more.  As with everything else these days, you have to be able to screen out the hype.

I especially like the 155 howitzer that can fire GPS guided shells that can drop in almost vertically from 26 miles away and even fire _around_ buildings.  That was COOL!

[Lostroth]

i watched the episode with the new Body Armour, and it was actually called "Dragon Skin" and they used ceramic plates and when they put the grenade under that dummy i thought for sure it would just blow through that armour, boy was i wrong

yeah and that semi automatic .50 cal rifle was amazing!

[farmboy]

i've caught it from time to time, too.  its really cool, what the military is doing these days.

[BOBK]

I haven't seen the show, probably because we don't yet have cabltv...just good-ole rabbit ears.  

All these gadgets are way cool on tv, but as was noted in another thread, in the field, it seems sometimes even low tech, but highly effective answers are not being identified and aquired by those who control the purse.  How ever cool and effective any of the items are, if it ain't appropriated in the budget, it might as well not exist.

Point is, I guess, that I hope we now have the forward thinking, highly observant, and highly adaptable leaders in charge of training/ordering and utilizing some of these high tech wonders..including "silly string".

[Ronin]

Point is, I guess, that I hope we now have the forward thinking, highly observant, and highly adaptable leaders in charge of training/ordering and utilizing some of these high tech wonders..including "silly string".

Erm, "silly string"?  What, pray tell, is that used for?

[Aramis]

i watched the episode with the new Body Armour, and it was actually called "Dragon Skin" and they used ceramic plates and when they put the grenade under that dummy i thought for sure it would just blow through that armour, boy was i wrong

yeah and that semi automatic .50 cal rifle was amazing!

Ah, yeah it was called Dragon Skin. It was really impressive, I know that much.


And make that two interested parties in the "silly string" comment.

[BOBK]

Not too long ago, within 6 months, or so, it was widely reported that the common toy known as "silly string" had been stumbled upon by combat forces.  Its purpose, to reveal hidden trip wires, which are common methods of detination.

A particular "mom helping out the troops" story aired with a plea from this mom for donations of "silly string" for the troops.  I was wondering at that time why it had to come to that.  I would have thought that the chain of command would hear and recognize extremely vital needs like those, and not make someone's mom do it.  

It is in that light, that even a low tech solution like that was not easily brought into use.  Are those in charge truly paying attention to their "special" equipment needs over there?  How forward thinking are those in command?  That knid of thing.

[Ronin]

Not too long ago, within 6 months, or so, it was widely reported that the common toy known as "silly string" had been stumbled upon by combat forces.  Its purpose, to reveal hidden trip wires, which are common methods of detination.

A particular "mom helping out the troops" story aired with a plea from this mom for donations of "silly string" for the troops.  I was wondering at that time why it had to come to that.  I would have thought that the chain of command would hear and recognize extremely vital needs like those, and not make someone's mom do it.  

It is in that light, that even a low tech solution like that was not easily brought into use.  Are those in charge truly paying attention to their "special" equipment needs over there?  How forward thinking are those in command?  That knid of thing.

This one completely got past me.  I never heard about it.  Sometimes I'm a bit flabbergasted at how many big holes we have in our equipment.  We're supposed to be the "best equipped, most high tech" army in the world.  But we overlook things as basic as something to easily detect trip wires.

[Aramis]

Holy hell, it's actually true: http://globalcop.us/2006/12/silly-string-in-war.html

What I find interesting, and probably the reason there was such an issue in troops getting it, is this little bit:

A small blurb about Marcelle Shriver's effort to send her son a case of Silly String popped up in the November 19 issue of TIME Magazine. That article explained that as aerosol cans are classified as a hazardous material and are thus impossible to ship via the USPS, Shriver's mission wasn't going to be easy to accomplish. Cut to three weeks later: After enlisting members of her church community to spread the word about her effort, Shriver has collected 1,000 cans of Silly String, and a pilot has offered to fly the cans over to Iraq himself, in order to get around the Postal Service's regulations.

(from http://news.netscape.com/story/2006/12/07/silly-string-has-serious-use-in-iraq/)

[110]

Dragon Skin is neat but left me wondering.  It seemed too much like a commercial to me.  What about 7.62x51mm (.308), 7.62x54r, m995 (5.56mmAP), and 7.62x39mm steel core ap.

As it is, it's an awesome piece of protective gear.  especially being able to take multiple hits, but going from an intermediate cartridge to a high-powered rifle cartridge can make a huge difference as well as AP rounds.

[Lostroth]

he fired Armour Piercing rounds at the vest, both 5.56 and 7.62. he first fired a few rounds at some steel plates to show what it can do then he fired them at the vest.

i would have liked to see what a .50 cal round would do to it. althought 5.56, 7.62 and 9mm are the most common types of ammunition used in the world, makes sense why they only showed those 3.

[Ronin]

I watched (most of) this last night.  I turned it off when they got to the submarine.

That Krakatoa explosive was pretty cool.  Brought to you by the same guy that brought you the instant door.  Pretty smart geezer.

The segment I enjoyed the most was on the Barrett .416 (the M107).  A .416 caliber weapon with more muzzle velocity (still supersonic at 2500 yards).  It's not designed for vehicles or light armor like the .50 but for taking out people.  At incredible range.

Awesome weapon.  I hope it shows up in games soon.  

[BOBK]

Actually, whenever I wonder if I should finally subscribe to cable, its either the Discovery Channel or the History Channel that comes to mind.  Cool shows like this, and that chopper guy with the fix-it shop are cable only.  I'd say its time to find a way to get it for this household.

I agree with looking forward to seeing some of these things in games, so a total know little or nothing about firearms person like me can see what they do.  I liken it to the low altitude over-head observation platforms in Ghost Recon.

[Javaman]

well i have seen all of the shows and they all kick ass but one really caught my eye and they showed this...



i cant wait to see that shit in real life.....of course on the good side of it..

[BajaBravo]

I've watched several episodes of Future Weapons and I have to admit, I do really enjoy the show (even with the Hammy the SEAL).

The only thing I wonder about sometimes is that for all of the millions and millions of dollars going into developing the weapons they showcase, is the money well spent? For some of the more innovative stuff, I'd say yes probably. For other things I'm not so sure.

In the kinds of conflicts the US is involved with now and will most likely be involved with in the foreseeable future, the current generation of hardware (with a few anecdotal exceptions) appears to be more than adequate for the US military to absolutely dominate the tactical battlespace. How much are you willing to pay to upgrade from "overwhelming tactical superiority" to "super-duper overwhelming tactical superiority".

It seems to me that the casualties taken by Western coalitions in current operations have little to do with weapon capabilities and have everything to do with the fact they are totally asymmetric fights.

Consider the World Series Champion baseball team squaring off against the Olympic gold medal synchronized swimming team for a game of soccer. The baseball team is not going to win by developing ever better ways to dominate the baseball diamond. The swimming team is not going to win by developing ever better ways to dominate the pool. The team that will win is the one that develops the most effective tactics for the soccer field (unique battlespace), and against the opposing team (unique threat).

Please note: the above analogy is used to illustrate the concept of an simple asymmetric fight, not specifically Iraq or any other current conflict. Real conflicts are far from simple.

Of course, I'll be eating my words once the US and China start duking it out. :tongue:

[Ronin]

I have seen a few technologies demonstrated on the show that I think lend themselves to dealing with an urban terrorist threat.

The instant door makes it impossible for the bad guys to really know where an assault might come from.  No more choke point entries with all weapons trained at that entry.

The gun with the ability to both see and shoot around corners is a tremendous boon to room clearing and dealing with hostage situations.

Stealth aircraft with heat vision that can be relayed to ground troops would be a huge boon as well.  A field commander can watch what's happening and even pinpoint where shots in a crowd are coming from.  Even weapons hidden under clothing would be detectable.  It would also make it much more difficult for someone firing from a crowd to just "disappear" since the UAV ground control could follow the shooter(s) and direct ground forces to intercept and even pull the right person/people out of a crowd.

Surveillance needs to be stepped up along the roads so that people planting these road side bombs can be followed.  They will eventually lead us back to where the IEDs are being made.  We then need to visit them and gather intelligence while there's no one there.  After that we leave and then that place needs to have a JDAM dropped on it WHILE it's full of bomb makers.

It's always been said that the US is willing to trade gold for blood (spend money on technology to spare lives).  We need to put more money into surveillance.  Much, much more.  I believe, intelligence is the only way you will beat a guerilla or terrorist enemy (based on what I've read -- I'm no expert).

I also watched a program the other night about Stryker teams in Iraq.  The Stryker seems pretty impressive.  Especially since it can withstand RPG attacks.  Having troops carried to crisis points inside a light armor vehicle that can withstand some pretty hard punishment AND maintain comm links between the Strykers and the ground troops seems to make a pretty effective ground combat.  I think this is the epitome of mechanized infantry.  Having several different variants of the Stryker for various support roles just adds to the effectiveness (and survivability) of Stryker teams.

[Ronin]

The episode of Future Weapons that  presented the B2 bomber got me to thinking.  This aircraft can carry 20 tons of munitions and carry it to any place on Earth without being detected.

This made me wonder what planning might be under way to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities using one or more Spirit squadrons loaded with bunker busters.  The F117 doesn't carry enough bomb load to be a real threat.  But the B2 certainly does.  I'm wondering how much this is reverberating within the DoD right now and if it's been presented to President Bush as a viable option.